Moving to Germany. Who to inform, P85?, NHS?

[themeditator]

Hello IT Contractors,

I shall be moving to Germany next month and spending 14 months on a contract.

I was reading up and apparently I need to fill out a P85 form and let the NHS know that I shall be moving etc?

Even though I shall still be maintaining a home here in the UK is there any requirement from me to do?

Does anyone have any first hand experience of who can advise how they went about it?

Thanks in Advance


M

[chef]

Depends if you mean you're having a long contract away or you're leaving for good and still maintaining a uk residence?

If you're working away long term but intend to return after contract ends then that's what I've done while I've been living here in Germany for the last 19 months, apart from filling in my Uk Ltd VAT returns as null and ensuring there's enough in my UK accounts (Ltd and Personal) to cover any necessary outgoing bills then no.

- I setup 2 mail re-directs for personal and Uk Ltd mail to be forwarded to my German address
- informed my accountant of my new german mobile number
- left messages on old uk home phone and mobile to contact me on new number
- contact German accountant to set up as a Freiberufler (Freelancer), ExpatTax I'd highly recommend, english (well irish) speaking long term german native, they also come highly recommend from colleagues and toytowngermany (uk expat website)
- have german contract written to you as a freelancer and not via uk ltd, huge tax advantages and it saves A LOT of red tape in mixing uk ltd with german tax system

Upon arriving in Germany:
- stay in a hotel for a short while until you find an area you'd like to live (1 week/2 weeks max)
- walk into a german bank and open a German bank account with passport and contract (2 hrs), having a card with a GeldKarte chip makes buying ubahn/sbahn easier and getting an account with both ec card (standard direct debit card accepted everywhere) and visa card (only usually accepted in larger retail stores/online flights etc.) helps when buying flights
- rent an apartment, if you're in Munich then MrLodge seems to have the monopoly on professional fully furnished short/mid term flat rentals
- go and register as a resident with the KVR/the state within 3 weeks of arrival to get a german resident number. Anyone staying over 1/2 yr on Germany soil (arrival/dept days are included) in a 12 month period is classed as resident in germany and therefore is tax resident and german tax officials make HMRC look like fluffy bunnies, be warned or if not expect a 7am tap at your door and anything document/pc like to be confiscated when they find you.
- update german accoutant with residence number
- get health insurance (assuming you're earning over 45k EUR then as a freelancer you'd be much wiser to get your own health insurance rather than pay state health insurance as it's WAYYY cheaper, having health insurance is the law in germany and staying over 1 yr invalidates your NHS E45 card (or whatever it's called), I see no reason to cancel that though and I havent been advised to notify NHS by anyone or read it anywhere (although I stand to be corrected). However, I've never really relied on the NHS when abroad as I have platinum worldwide health cover with all the xtreme sports stuff etc. which I would rely on if anything happened up until I got my german health sorted.
- registering for VAT is optional, speak with the accountant to decide if it's worth it for you, personally for the small small amount back I would spend more on accountant fees and my time in sorting it so I chose not to, a colleague decided the opposite, there is no right answer.
- german tax year is jan - dec

Long term contract was my intial plan, but, as I've now met german gf chef, I like the life out here, I think that Uk plc is going to the wall and being based in in Central Europe is better for commuting than Manchester; I'm now in the slow process of closing down my Uk abode and moving out here for good. I've started by cancelling tv licence, broadband (weirdly emotional to cancel my faithful broadband of 10+ years), home insurance etc. I'll make the Uk Ltd dormant as you never know if I'll work back in the uk in the future and they're not freelancer friendly there..

If you have any further q's drop me a PM and when I finally notice someone's sent me a message I'll read and reply.

Good luck
Chef

[themeditator]

Chef,

You are very helpful buddy. I cannot PM you for some reason on the site. Can you PM me instead?

M

[The Wikir Man]

Chef,

You are very helpful buddy. I cannot PM you for some reason on the site. Can you PM me instead?

M

Admin says that you should be able to PM now.

[chef]

Chef,

You are very helpful buddy. I cannot PM you for some reason on the site. Can you PM me instead?

M

sent

[LegendsWear7]

I'm based in Hessen. Expecting an offer to work in Bayern 5 days a week and (possibly) commuting back to Hesse on weekends.


Register with Bavaria or stay with Hessen ? Pay tax in Bayern I guess? Claim second residence across states ?

[chef]

I am not an accountant and I would advise taking proper legal advice, however, I am currently registered as having my main residence in Cologne and I have my second residence in Munich which I claim as a business expense, the Munich contract matches my work contract and when the work ends the Munich apartment ends therefore as I understand it, it along with commuting costs to/from Cologne/Munich are all valid business expenses. Although right now I spend 4 days a week in Munich and 3 in Cologne, my centre of life is in Cologne as that is where my partner is, that is where all my main possessions are and that is where I will live whenever my contract ends, therefore it is my main residence.

[darmstadt]

I'm based in Hessen. Expecting an offer to work in Bayern 5 days a week and (possibly) commuting back to Hesse on weekends.


Register with Bavaria or stay with Hessen ? Pay tax in Bayern I guess? Claim second residence across states ?

I'm also in Hessen and a few years ago did a 6 month 5 days a week contract in Bayern. First off I rented an apartment and then I went to the Amt in the town where I was working. They told me that as I would be spending most of my time there I would have to register there for tax purposes and I would also have to get my car registration changed as well. I thought 'bugger that' so I just turned around I said I would actually only be around 3 days a week there and they accepted that but I still did a few things properly such as the GEZ. A couple of years ago I was 5 days a week in Stuttgart and didn't bother registering although that might be due to the fact I was staying in an appartment hotel. Even now I spend more time out of Hessen (3 days in Münster and 2 in Köln) but stay registered there. Its just too much hassle.

[bobhope]

Good luck with the P85. I sent them one a few times, never got an acknowledgment. God knows what my status is in the UK.

[Danbro]

Good luck with the P85. I sent them one a few times, never got an acknowledgment. God knows what my status is in the UK.

We liaise with HMRC on behalf of the contractors we deal with in Germany and they do seem to have a huge backlog at the minute when it comes to acknowledging P85’s. It Can take months to get a response.

For the OP:

As already mentioned, when you role over the 183 days in any 12month period, you are deemed a resident in Germany thus will have to pay German tax from day 1 of starting your contract (meaning if you paid UK tax for the first 183 days there will be a recalculation required for the whole period), so I would recommend paying from day 1.

Apply for an E101: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/forms/2009/ca8421a.pdf
Get an EHIC: (These don’t cover much to be honest): European Health Insurance Card (EHIC) - The new replacement for the E111
Get private health insurance (example): The Expat Health Plan.