I just need to get two references ...

[jmo21]

There is another side to this scam that so many of you condemn with such self righteous indignation. The agency and contractor market operates in a way that IT contractors are able to market their skills without it costing them a penny. I am sure some of you with further righteous indignation will howl that you do pay agents out of your earnings. However there are not many businesses that can be kept in work without it costing them a lot of money. The transfer of information is how this system works so well.
A few of you would do well to remember this.

Yeah well done.

We wouldn't mind if you simply asked if we knew anyone who might be looking to hire.

It's the pretence and time wasting when we are actually looking for work, and you dont even have a role for us.

[SueEllen]

Yeah well done.

We wouldn't mind if you simply asked if we knew anyone who might be looking to hire.

It's the pretence and time wasting when we are actually looking for work, and you dont even have a role for us.

WHS

[mudskipper]

There is another side to this scam that so many of you condemn with such self righteous indignation. The agency and contractor market operates in a way that IT contractors are able to market their skills without it costing them a penny. I am sure some of you with further righteous indignation will howl that you do pay agents out of your earnings. However there are not many businesses that can be kept in work without it costing them a lot of money. The transfer of information is how this system works so well.
A few of you would do well to remember this.

So how about a new model?

Buyer (client) pays nothing. The contractor pays a sensible fixed fee in line with the effort required to find and secure a contract. (say 2K). If payment factoring is required by buyer or seller, a further fee as a percentage of the payment (say 2-3%) of the invoice value is charged.

[DodgyAgent]

Yeah well done.

We wouldn't mind if you simply asked if we knew anyone who might be looking to hire.

It's the pretence and time wasting when we are actually looking for work, and you dont even have a role for us.

I am not saying it is not sneaky and yes I totally agree with your point, what I am saying is that it contributes to the benefit of how the market works whether we like it or not. And if you put it into perspective and compare this dishonesty with the levels of dishonesty practiced by the clients you end up working for then agents are by comparison mother Teresa .

[Brussels Slumdog]

I am not saying it is not sneaky and yes I totally agree with your point, what I am saying is that it contributes to the benefit of how the market works whether we like it or not. And if you put it into perspective and compare this dishonesty with the levels of dishonesty practiced by the clients you end up working for then agents are by comparison mother Teresa .

Then the market is not working as it is possible that :
The Project Manager was fired and no longer works for the company
The Project Manager was also a contractor and has left the country

Equals useless reference + useless future contact = Total waste of everyones time

A good agent is capable of reading my CV and noting which companies I have worked for. There is a 90% chance that they already know someone at one of the companies so asking for a reference is a waste of time

[jmo21]

I am not saying it is not sneaky and yes I totally agree with your point, what I am saying is that it contributes to the benefit of how the market works whether we like it or not. And if you put it into perspective and compare this dishonesty with the levels of dishonesty practiced by the clients you end up working for then agents are by comparison mother Teresa .

If a hiring manager is looking to hire, then he will approach agencies with his requirements (or if he has time advertise them himself, though is less common than I'd like).

I don't believe any one agency is massively better at finding candidates than others.

He can easily pick 1 or more agencies, who will mostly have all the same contractors details, or post the roles on the same job boards.

And comparing to the practices of clients is a straw man argument.

[TheFaQQer]

Purely out of interest, a question for the agents on here...

When you've fished for leads, and you then ring the managers, how often do they say "ooh, you know what - I was wondering whether I needed more people, and now because you've rung, I've realised that I do. Get me some people, now!" (or words to that effect)?

[jimbo45]

Hi there
in over 45 years of contracting I've NEVER been asked for these --in any case they are totally meaningless -- if a company wants to get rid of somebody the will usually give then a glowing reference just to get rid of the person.

In any case some reference data can now be construed as breaking the various data protection acts so the people giving them could actually be sued !!.

What do you do also if say you got your contract say through a consultancy like Accenture (we call it accidenture !!) and those people have all gone from the end client so nobody is available to give you a reference.

Most decent employers now have a policy saying "We neither supply or request references" -- all we will do is confirm that person XXXX worked as YYYY from aaaa to bbbb.

Cheers
jimbo

[GillsMan]

In any case some reference data can now be construed as breaking the various data protection acts so the people giving them could actually be sued !!

Christ, that particular bit was utter nonsense. Firstly, various data protection acts? There is only one. Handily, it is called the Data Protection Act.

Secondly, no-one could be sued under the DPA for providing a reference, positive or otherwise. And you would be hard-pressed to sue an ex-employer for negligence for a negative reference, provided the ex-employer could substantiate any claims they make.

So let's not propagate tired and nonsensical myths about references, eh?

[FirstCallCS]

References are exactly what they say on the tin - they show possible employers whether what you're true to your word.

I'm not sure whether all companies use references in their recruitment process, however it can help you decide between equally good candidates. And I don't think people can be sued for giving references - you choose the people, not what they say.