Advice needed on international project day rate

[jamesbrown]

Yes, it will cost you something to speak to an expert, for sure. I'd expect similar fees to a good contract lawyer, but I doubt you'd need more than an hour or two of consultation w/r to the visa waiver, including the meaning of "productive work" and the specific exclusions as they relate to your situation.

Out of curiosity, did you find out whether your client contact is travelling under the visa waiver or a visa (should give an indication about how lax the client is, if nothing else)? If they're doing it properly, I would expect something like an L-1B for an intra-company transfer of a specialist (who has been working continuously at the client for the last year at least).

[jameslmorgan]

Yes, it will cost you something to speak to an expert, for sure. I'd expect similar fees to a good contract lawyer, but I doubt you'd need more than an hour or two of consultation w/r to the visa waiver, including the meaning of "productive work" and the specific exclusions as they relate to your situation.

Out of curiosity, did you find out whether your client contact is travelling under the visa waiver or a visa (should give an indication about how lax the client is, if nothing else)? If they're doing it properly, I would expect something like an L-1B for an intra-company transfer of a specialist (who has been working continuously at the client for the last year at least).

I didn’t but I’ll ask the client contact what they and any others are using in terms of ESTA or visa for the project.

[jameslmorgan]

From the client after I asked that question

“The advice came from our international HR team (Legal does not support visa processes). I am also double checking with a specialist immigration agency, via HR, and still waiting for a reply.



Other team members:

A UK contractor from London joining the project as data specialist, will be on ESTA.

We have another couple of UK staff members who will most likely join us, who will be on ESTA.

I will be travelling on my regular B1/B2 (I can’t have ESTA as I have been to Iran).



Across other projects, many of our employees move and work fluidly across UK/US and LATAM/US and it has not proven to be an issue to date, but of course I understand that things can be different for non-employees and I want you to feel comfortable with your work status.”

[jamesbrown]

From the client after I asked that question

“The advice came from our international HR team (Legal does not support visa processes). I am also double checking with a specialist immigration agency, via HR, and still waiting for a reply.



Other team members:

A UK contractor from London joining the project as data specialist, will be on ESTA.

We have another couple of UK staff members who will most likely join us, who will be on ESTA.

I will be travelling on my regular B1/B2 (I can’t have ESTA as I have been to Iran).



Across other projects, many of our employees move and work fluidly across UK/US and LATAM/US and it has not proven to be an issue to date, but of course I understand that things can be different for non-employees and I want you to feel comfortable with your work status.”

International HR team FFS, that's what it sounded like too.

My gut tells me they are completely clueless and are probably violating the terms of the visa waiver and B visa en masse. Like I said earlier in this thread, they wouldn't be the first.

Ultimately, the responsibility for this will fall on you and you won't have a legal team to try and fix the mess, so it makes sense for you to take independent advice if you're still remotely considering this.

[jameslmorgan]

International HR team FFS, that's what it sounded like too.

My gut tells me they are completely clueless and are probably violating the terms of the visa waiver and B visa en masse. Like I said earlier in this thread, they wouldn't be the first.

Ultimately, the responsibility for this will fall on you and you won't have a legal team to try and fix the mess, so it makes sense for you to take independent advice if you're still remotely considering this.

I agree they must be happy violating. As you said responsibility if I do so falls only on me. I’m away now so unable to get independent advice. I doubt the client ‘immigration agwncy’ will give much useful info. And my contact to US CBP via their website has a 10-15 day lead time for a reply.

[jameslmorgan]

Had a reply to my message to US CBP. Totally generic and not helpful even though I stated my situation in detail.

“Thank you for contacting the U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) Information Center.

Answer Link: Frequently Asked Questions about the Visa Waiver Program (VWP) and the Electronic System for Travel Authorization (ESTA)

Approved ESTA applications are valid for two years, or until your passport expires; whichever comes first. ESTA authorizations are valid for multiple trips to the United States during the valid period without having to re-apply. When traveling to the United States using an approved ESTA, you may only stay in the United States for up to 90 days at a time.

Entry and length of authorized stay are determined by the CBP Officer at the port of entry each time you travel.

Thank you again for contacting our office.

NOTE: The answers provided in this forum are for general information purposes only. Utilizing this forum does not constitute reasonable care under the Informed Compliance guidelines.

The Information Center is open Monday through Friday from 8:30 a.m. until 4:00 p.m., Eastern Time (ET). We are closed on Federal holidays. Our toll free line within the United States is (877) 227-5511. International callers can reach us during our hours of operation by dialing 00+1+202-325-8000.”

[redgiant]

I wouldn't expect anything from CBP beyond the standard responses unfortunately.

From what you have written previously the ClientCo seem willfully ignorant of US immigration laws and expect their staff and contractors to attend meetings as well as undertake what would be classed as productive work by USCIS under ESTAs. Ultimately the risk is on you as the contractor as it is you who would have to face the CBP at the US border and be reviewed each time you enter the US.

Have you got any legal advice from the ClientCo's legal counsel or your own immigration lawyer/attorney? HR are not qualified to make decisions on these matters in my experience.

Had a reply to my message to US CBP. Totally generic and not helpful even though I stated my situation in detail.

“Thank you for contacting the U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) Information Center.

Answer Link: Frequently Asked Questions about the Visa Waiver Program (VWP) and the Electronic System for Travel Authorization (ESTA)

Approved ESTA applications are valid for two years, or until your passport expires; whichever comes first. ESTA authorizations are valid for multiple trips to the United States during the valid period without having to re-apply. When traveling to the United States using an approved ESTA, you may only stay in the United States for up to 90 days at a time.

Entry and length of authorized stay are determined by the CBP Officer at the port of entry each time you travel.

Thank you again for contacting our office.

NOTE: The answers provided in this forum are for general information purposes only. Utilizing this forum does not constitute reasonable care under the Informed Compliance guidelines.

The Information Center is open Monday through Friday from 8:30 a.m. until 4:00 p.m., Eastern Time (ET). We are closed on Federal holidays. Our toll free line within the United States is (877) 227-5511. International callers can reach us during our hours of operation by dialing 00+1+202-325-8000.”

[jameslmorgan]

Have you got any legal advice from the ClientCo's legal counsel or your own immigration lawyer/attorney? HR are not qualified to make decisions on these matters in my experience.

The client are waiting for some feedback from an “immigration agency” via their HR. Not sure what that means.

I’m away in Asia so unable to get any other advice currently.

Someone else on this thread had suggested asking CBP which was why I sent them a message. As you say , just generic advice back from them.

I probably need to decide about accepting this project in the next week or so while still in Asia. Not sure I’ll trust what the client immigration agency advice because, as we’ve established here, the client seem very relaxed about the rules around ESTA.

[jameslmorgan]

Update

The latest is that the client (surprise!) came back with "I have discussed with our immigration specialist and unfortunately, we cannot sponsor visas for or offer legal advice to freelancers and contractors."

They are now suggesting ways we could run the project with me spending much less time in NYC. So working from London and travelling to NYC for example to conduct consumer research.

[jamesbrown]

The latest is that the client (surprise!) came back with "I have discussed with our immigration specialist and unfortunately, we cannot sponsor visas for or offer legal advice to freelancers and contractors."

They are now suggesting ways we could run the project with me spending much less time in NYC. So working from London and travelling to NYC for example to conduct consumer research.

Oh well, ultimately that sounds like a win to me!

That's what you want, really. Do all the productive work over here and leave the work over there to non-productive work, like face-to-face meetings.

BTW, thanks for the update - always interesting to hear back!