State of the Market

[GhostofTarbera]

There could be a hidden agenda behind this advt.

Now that they have advertised and couldn't find a suitable developer (I'm certain they can't find one for this rate), their case for outsourcing got easier.

It's funny how they talk about cloud delivery but haven't mentioned a single word on specific cloud platform.

I bet you they get 100 applications

Several months without any income or state help and running out of food makes folk lower there expectations


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[jayn200]

I bet you they get 100 applications

Several months without any income or state help and running out of food makes folk lower there expectations


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Yeah I agree. People will be applying to literally anything.

[perplexed]

I bet you they get 100 applications

Several months without any income or state help and running out of food makes folk lower there expectations


Sent from my iPhone using Contractor UK Forum

Anyone taking that on will almost certainly be looking for other gigs - either to cut and run on it or to run concurrent gigs.

[edison]

On the contrary minorities have to work twice as hard as whites else they are the first to be chucked out of job. its common knowledge that you get lot more response to your CV if it is a common British name on it instead of ethnic sounding name.

Au Contraire ... Au Contraire. I am from a minority background (not French either) and don't have a British name. But I get a lot of response.

Probably the hiring managers assumed that I would be submissive and work for 10-15 hours a day but charge only for 8 hours.

Poor souls! They don't know what's about to hit them!

I have repeatedly seen that it is the skillset, market demand, experience and rate determines the response rate.

Plenty of experiments have been conducted in the past where word for word identical CVs are submitted for the same job but one with a western sounding name and the other 'foreign', yet the western named applicant is more likely to get a positive response.

[edison]

Twice as hard is hyperbole.

Is it not possible that whites are overrepresented in senior management because of the culture of network oriented hiring at that level and historic wealth and ethnic distributions (historically white people have held all the wealth and had even greater percentages of people).

Do you really think people are actively working to keep minorities down?

Does a minority really fair worse than a poor white British person with no access to family wealth and no network or access to connected people?

Not saying it isn't a problem... It is a huge issue but one of the ways those in power are able to retain it is because they're able to get poor minorities fighting with poor white people instead of working towards dismantling the systems that keep both of those groups oppressed.

Twice is hard is an exaggeration, I'd say 10-15%.

Networks is a significant factor, including which university you may have gone to in certain professions. But even if you have very similar candidates with the same experience and qualifications, it's harder for someone from an ethnic minority to get the job. The thing is that some organisations make little attempt to try and create a more level playing field and this includes for women too yet the evidence has consistently shown companies with little diversity perform worse than their peers. If this is the case, why wouldn't companies make more effort?

[GhostofTarbera]

Anyone taking that on will almost certainly be looking for other gigs - either to cut and run on it or to run concurrent gigs.

What other gigs ?


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[jayn200]

Twice is hard is an exaggeration, I'd say 10-15%.

Networks is a significant factor, including which university you may have gone to in certain professions. But even if you have very similar candidates with the same experience and qualifications, it's harder for someone from an ethnic minority to get the job. The thing is that some organisations make little attempt to try and create a more level playing field and this includes for women too yet the evidence has consistently shown companies with little diversity perform worse than their peers. If this is the case, why wouldn't companies make more effort?

Yeah I would agree it's probably in that range, I mean hard to assign a number, definitely exists. Only the most ignorant people would argue it doesn't.

Network oriented hiring practices is the cause of many perceived and actual forms of discriminative hiring. Dismantling it and going for a meritocracy is vastly superior to any type of diversity/positive discrimination type initiatives to equaling the playing field.

Hiring more BAME and women from oxbridge isn't going to help anything but that's what happens when you just create ethnic and gender quotas.

Anyway this is way off topic for this thread.

[sira]

Things are getting more noisy at my end, few interviews lined up. Mixture of contract and permanent.

Market rates have taken a beating - for myself personally I'm seeing 20-40% reductions in day rates and around 15% on the perm side.

Oh and 90% of contracting gigs I've been approached for have been Inside IR35.

[JohnM]

Just focusing on developers there are contracts out there it has not completely fell off a cliff I have had the choice of three over the last couple of weeks however rates have definitely dropped with £400-450 a day now the max you are going to get non financial services even in London

I guess its about holding your nerve, this is covid related, not IR35/outsourced IT etc and will pick up over the next 6-12 months

Obviously we have the IR35 changes in April, however I would not throw in the towel just yet (developers) and would wait and see how the next 6-12 months work out

I don't think we are going to have the moonscape in contracting a lot on here talk about next year, I think there will be plenty of work for contractors. Outsourcing does not suit most companies who want devs to work with their own internal teams, even the bigger ones who do oustource a project like to have a senior dev/architect working onshore to mange this for them

To much negativity on these boards, yes times are hard but imagine being a restaurant worker, barman in a pub or crowd steward at a football ground

We (IT Dev contractors) have led a pretty privileged life for the last 20 years in terms of work, even now there were over 2000 perm developer jobs posted last week,and 250 contracts that is a lot more than huge swathes of our economy are seeing

My advice to any contract developer is to wait till this time next year before going perm if you can

[JohnM]

Things are getting more noisy at my end, few interviews lined up. Mixture of contract and permanent.

Market rates have taken a beating - for myself personally I'm seeing 20-40% reductions in day rates and around 15% on the perm side.

Oh and 90% of contracting gigs I've been approached for have been Inside IR35.

I have seen the opposite of that with 90% being outside. Do you apply for a lot public sector roles ?