Ajilon - "Employed Consultant"

[Jog On]

So basically it's a way for agencies to squeeze more margins from the contractor while billing he client the same as they would regardless of the contractor being a LTD or 'employed' consultant?

Is this the same as going 'pro rata' or is that something else?

[monobrow]

Devils Advocate?

if you are out of work, get offered a job and are happy with the terms then great.

if you are a highly paid, highly skilled, highly ego'd contractor who wouldn't work for less than 2k a day "because you're worth it", then bully for you, but I personally don't think such a negative response to all schemes are worthy of so much criticism?

I can see the headlines now, "business in, trying to make as much money as possible from customer" shock...

i'm sure if given the opportunity all of us would want to make as much profit as possible from whoever our clients may be.

if you want to talk about value, stop thinking about IT Contractors on 100k+ a year doing helpdesk work and think of people who study for years to be a nurse on 18k a year and actually bring something useful to society...

/rant off

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

Devils Advocate?

if you are out of work, get offered a job and are happy with the terms then great.

if you are a highly paid, highly skilled, highly ego'd contractor who wouldn't work for less than 2k a day "because you're worth it", then bully for you, but I personally don't think such a negative response to all schemes are worthy of so much criticism?

I can see the headlines now, "business in, trying to make as much money as possible from customer" shock...

i'm sure if given the opportunity all of us would want to make as much profit as possible from whoever our clients may be.

if you want to talk about value, stop thinking about IT Contractors on 100k+ a year doing helpdesk work and think of people who study for years to be a nurse on 18k a year and actually bring something useful to society...

/rant off

To continue with the concept of devil's advocate - invariably opportunities are created and taken, not given - you cannot assume that a high earning individual has achieved his wealth through being in the right place at the right time. Also everyone has freedom of choice and nurses are not forced into the profession at gunpoint. I think we could all agree that nurses bring more to the NHS than their higher paid 'managers' but both parties chose their career path knowing all the pro's and con's.

[Jog On]

Devils Advocate?

if you are out of work, get offered a job and are happy with the terms then great.

if you are a highly paid, highly skilled, highly ego'd contractor who wouldn't work for less than 2k a day "because you're worth it", then bully for you, but I personally don't think such a negative response to all schemes are worthy of so much criticism?

I can see the headlines now, "business in, trying to make as much money as possible from customer" shock...

i'm sure if given the opportunity all of us would want to make as much profit as possible from whoever our clients may be.

if you want to talk about value, stop thinking about IT Contractors on 100k+ a year doing helpdesk work and think of people who study for years to be a nurse on 18k a year and actually bring something useful to society...

/rant off

So you're saying this is a justification for squeezing more margin from the contractor who's set up a business, paid an accountant, does admin, get's insurance, runs the risk of getting investigated by HMRC, has no job security, no employee benefits, pays his/her own pension etc?

And you're saying consider the poor nurses on 18k as an example of why contractors should be giving you that much more of a margin for no extra 'value'

Oh dear... And what 'value' are the agencies offering these schemes adding to the equation exactly.

In fact - what value are they contributing to society? I mean think about those people who give up their lives and go and work for charities for nothing but actually add some value

To continue with the concept of devil's advocate - invariably opportunities are created and taken, not given - you cannot assume that a high earning individual has achieved his wealth through being in the right place at the right time. Also everyone has freedom of choice and nurses are not forced into the profession at gunpoint. I think we could all agree that nurses bring more to the NHS than their higher paid 'managers' but both parties chose their career path knowing all the pro's and con's.

WSS - some people choose permie, some people choose contract. This is a contract under permie conditions/pay with an extra chunk for the agent, am I wrong?

[SueEllen]

To continue with the concept of devil's advocate - invariably opportunities are created and taken, not given - you cannot assume that a high earning individual has achieved his wealth through being in the right place at the right time. Also everyone has freedom of choice and nurses are not forced into the profession at gunpoint. I think we could all agree that nurses bring more to the NHS than their higher paid 'managers' but both parties chose their career path knowing all the pro's and con's.

Being related to a fair few nurses I should point out:
1. Nurses unlike NHS managers are aware they can get qualified and gain initial experience in the UK and go elsewhere in the world to have a better standard of living and much higher pay, or can work privately in the UK. Unlike NHS managers who have no clinical experience or medical qualifications.
2. Some nurses trained by the NHS and with nursing experience work as highly paid NHS managers. Having been nurses they get more respect from clinical staff than those managers who have no clinical experience.

[monobrow]

So you're saying this is a justification for squeezing more margin from the contractor who's set up a business, paid an accountant, does admin, get's insurance, runs the risk of getting investigated by HMRC, has no job security, no employee benefits, pays his/her own pension etc?

And you're saying consider the poor nurses on 18k as an example of why contractors should be giving you that much more of a margin for no extra 'value'

Oh dear... And what 'value' are the agencies offering these schemes adding to the equation exactly.

In fact - what value are they contributing to society? I mean think about those people who give up their lives and go and work for charities for nothing but actually add some value



WSS - some people choose permie, some people choose contract. This is a contract under permie conditions/pay with an extra chunk for the agent, am I wrong?

You raise a fair point, however I also think it's pretty naive to assume that the agencies are in business for "us". I agree they add little value, but do they add less value than any established consultancy who pays someone 100k a year and charges them out at 2k a day?. Do they complain? Maybe not as much, is it because they are on what you consider to be a high salary? Perhaps, but the same concept applies.

Is Wayne Rooney worth 250k a week (when he is generating 5x that in revenue for the club) ? Is a star trader worth a 1mil bonus (when he manages a 2.5 Bn portfolio?)

My view, we are all adults and should have enough nous to negotiate our own terms, if we agree to them, we should stick by them or move on and not complain about it.

If these guys are telling you that your terms are changing, leave or negotiate terms that suit you.