Raab gone

[darmstadt]

That may change, and it rather depends on how much of the £39bn they want to see. Let's hope they haven't spent it already...

That's the spirit! Let Boris or whichever other pisspoor politician gets the top job break an internationally binding agreement. I mean **** it, not only will other countries no longer trust the UK but any agreement that is made with another country probably won't be worth the paper it's written on. Still, look on the bright side, the UK might become an economic pariah in the world but at least...blue passports...well worth it!

[meridian]

That may change, and it rather depends on how much of the £39bn they want to see. Let's hope they haven't spent it already...

Crikey, is it still 2016? We’re still on “an economy multiples of our size needs our money therefore we hold all the cards”?

How has that worked out for you in the last three years?

[Old Greg]

Crikey, is it still 2016? We’re still on “an economy multiples of our size needs our money therefore we hold all the cards”?

How has that worked out for you in the last three years?

The UK has left the EU and the Eurozone has collapsed.

[meridian]

Raab gone

If the EU can't get no Brexit, and I doubt they can get it, they have to choose between a new WA or no deal, whatever they might be saying now.

“They” don’t have to choose anything at all. A WA has been agreed with the official U.K. government representatives. If Parliament didn’t want the U.K. government to agree the WA then it should have set boundaries when A59 was triggered. It didn’t.

Give them a reasonable deal and they will eventually accept it.

It is a reasonable deal.

Money always talks, and if German exporters are hurt badly by no deal, the EU position will end up magically moving before long. That's just the way it is in the real world.

Hello, 2016 calling, can we have all our cards back now?

Boris needs a Brexit that is clear enough to win back most Tory Brexiteers, not all of them. No Irish backstop, no customs union, free trade agreements with the US and various other countries.

Oh, FFS. Cretinism all over again.

He needs the Euro ports to not blow up with massive backlogs, no nightmares at airports,

Why would the EU blow up with backlogs on non-U.K. imports or exports, in ports that are not Calais? Who do you think a backlog would impact more?

Queues at airports? Only for non-EU citizens. Eg Brits. Not anyone in the EU’s problem, but makes for good headlines in the Sun.

.If he can also get some decent agreements with the EU on fishing

Hurrah! 0.05% of GDP saved!

Then, he'll do something absolutely stupid and blow up his popularity for something absolutely pointless. That's Boris.

About the only thing we agree on.

[WordIsBond]

“They” don’t have to choose anything at all. A WA has been agreed with the official U.K. government representatives. If Parliament didn’t want the U.K. government to agree the WA then it should have set boundaries when A59 was triggered. It didn’t.

Mate, I hate to break it to you but if the fact that Theresa May agreed to the WA had any legal force we'd be out of the EU by now. The fact that she agreed to it is entirely irrelevant now. It is a relic of history. It's only continuing existence is that it is the current EU negotiating position. Whether it will shift or not remains to be seen but that is all it is, a negotiating position. They are saying it is one from which they will not budge, and maybe they won't in the short term. Who knows? But until a UK government puts it through parliament it is nothing more than a negotiating position.

And if a government never puts it through parliament it seems likely that sometime in the next 9,428 years there will be a different negotiating position and a different agreement between the parties in regard to trade and other matters. I'm of the view it's likely to happen within the next 18 months and probably less, but whatever. If you choose to think the EU negotiating position is written in stone and immutable, I think you'll probably eventually learn differently.

It is a reasonable deal.

Maybe. It certainly is for the EU. I think Theresa May is a pathetic negotiator, but whatever. Whether the current proposal is a reasonable deal or not doesn't change the fact that there can always, in every negotiation, be multiple reasonable deals. If you are a contractor you know that.

Oh, FFS. Cretinism all over again.

Call it what you want but if he's going to survive that's what he has to do, and if the EU won't agree to it then he has to do no deal. Calling it cretinism doesn't change the politics of the matter.

[Old Greg]

Mate, I hate to break it to you but if the fact that Theresa May agreed to the WA had any legal force we'd be out of the EU by now. The fact that she agreed to it is entirely irrelevant now. It is a relic of history. It's only continuing existence is that it is the current EU negotiating position.

It is also the UK government position. But the traitors in parliament aren't having it.

[WordIsBond]

It is also the UK government position.

For a few more weeks, yes.

[Old Greg]

For a few more weeks, yes.

So what else is the EU to do in the face of a failing state?

[WordIsBond]

So what else is the EU to do in the face of a failing state?

I'm not sure I suggested the EU should do anything else. I just said what I think will happen, which is not what I wish would happen.

I suspect there will eventually be a parliament, this one or another one, that will be able to agree to coherent proposals, and that the EU will come to the point of agreeing some reasonable approach even if it doesn't exactly match their current approach. I suspect that we'll have to put up with a period of 'no deal' first to concentrate minds on both sides of the channel, but that it probably will happen within two years.

[Old Greg]

I'm not sure I suggested the EU should do anything else. I just said what I think will happen, which is not what I wish would happen.

I suspect there will eventually be a parliament, this one or another one, that will be able to agree to coherent proposals, and that the EU will come to the point of agreeing some reasonable approach even if it doesn't exactly match their current approach. I suspect that we'll have to put up with a period of 'no deal' first to concentrate minds on both sides of the channel, but that it probably will happen within two years.

Parliament will stop No Deal.