Public Sector forcing PAYE and all that - Consultancies a way around this?

[Wanderer]

Just had call from a Healthcare "Consultancy" (didn't catch the name) wanting me to come on board as a contractor working for them and they then place me at the Trust.

I remember when IR35 first came out, a criticism was that it would play into the hands of the big consultancies and kill off the small and one man band contracting outfits. You have to wonder if this is doing the same thing, either intentionally or otherwise.

ie, the NHS wants a project done, they don't have the internal resources so they look to get some contractors in (potentially small one man LTDs) but no one will do it because of the regulations so the NHS has no choice but to go to one of the big consultancies and hire them to do the job.....

[tractor]

...

When IR35 was at the consulting stage of legislation, I can remember Timms finger in the pie. A lot of us were concerned that the people involved in developing IR35 were far too close to the consultancies to be impartial. It would be worth looking into how close some of this lot are.

[Rabotnik]

One of the posters pointed out that Trusts are not the same as govt public bodies so was unsure what the effect of this legislation on NHS roles was. I haven't followed the discussion to be fair but could be worth looking in to.

I'm currently at a Trust and just got offered another extension. My manager hasn't heard anything about these changes to engaging PSC contractors, so it seems that trusts are excluded.

[TestMangler]

I'm currently at a Trust and just got offered another extension. My manager hasn't heard anything about these changes to engaging PSC contractors, so it seems that trusts are excluded.

Or, it could be that your manager simply hasn't heard anything about these changes to engaging PSC contractors.

It could also be that he doesn't care because it doesn't reshape his tax liability.

Don't think one manager not knowing equals "It doesn't apply to trusts".

[Rabotnik]

Or, it could be that your manager simply hasn't heard anything about these changes to engaging PSC contractors.

It could also be that he doesn't care because it doesn't reshape his tax liability.

Don't think one manager not knowing equals "It doesn't apply to trusts".

Surely he would know about it now though, especially if he has requested approval for an extension to my contract? HR/Accounts would have said "yes, but you have to enforce these new rules now".

[IR35FanClub]

Surely he would know about it now though, especially if he has requested approval for an extension to my contract? HR/Accounts would have said "yes, but you have to enforce these new rules now".

nope they won't know. you have to remember the typical HR person or client co doesnt stay bang up date with treasury guidance or upper gov dictat. it can take a while for policy to embed.

im working at a gov agency that is affected, but they still dont really know what they should be doing.

your original question would working through a consultancy make a difference. i had started thinking that, but the reality is IR35 is apllied to the individual. The consultancy would just be another intemediary. So no change to you from HMRCs point of view but you might be able to hide from the end agency.

I think the better solution is to start your own consultancy with at least 5 people invoicing. but that migjt be more trouble than its worth.

[Rabotnik]

Yeah I was counting on them not being clued up so they wouldn't interfere with my existing contract, but that's up in October, so I thought when he requested the extension they would start implementing the new rules. Regardless, as I mentioned in the other government contract thread, if they suddenly want to enforce this I will just terminate the contract.

[SueEllen]

ie, the NHS wants a project done, they don't have the internal resources so they look to get some contractors in (potentially small one man LTDs) but no one will do it because of the regulations so the NHS has no choice but to go to one of the big consultancies and hire them to do the job.....

Larger consultancies that win contracts from large clients don't have all the staff they need with the skills to do the work so in turn they hire contractors.....

It's a complete farce.

[speling bee]

I'm currently at a Trust and just got offered another extension. My manager hasn't heard anything about these changes to engaging PSC contractors, so it seems that trusts are excluded.

The Cabinet Office document includes trusts. However I am not clear how the financial sanctions for non-compliance can be applied to trusts. I am not sure how the policy can be applied to FTs at all.

It may be that they will seek to change the Ts & Cs in the procurement catalogues for contracts with agencies. This may take time.

[IR35 Avoider]

I presume the way the rules will be enforced is that the government-consultancy contract will require that all persons supplied be paid via payroll.

(Mods may delete this post if they think I'm giving anyone ideas. )


Being a contractor in the public sector will mean taking fixed term employment contracts with a consultancy.