No To Retro Tax – Campaign Against Section 58 Finance Act 2008

[lilikins1]

Ha. check out the comment in which they say that if HMRC can't get their own numbers right how can they expect other people to. UK Tax system = mess

HMRC Embarrasses George Osborne With £2 Billion Tax Income Error[/QUOTE]

This is what the FT wrote that HMRC said when challenged by the Head of the British Bankers Association on taking money out of people's accounts directly as they cannot be trusted to calculate properly...


HMRC said “we strongly reject any questions about our competence”, saying it collected £506bn last year, its best-ever performance. It said it expected the Adjudicator to uphold fewer complaints this year following an improvement in its complaints handling process.


http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/0abd2a0c-2...#axzz3TQEjkIIl

[elpinar]

two questions

1. If NTRT launch an FTTT will it apply to thier members or everyone ?

2. so really , an APN is like a CTD cept HMRC offically know about it .... as with a CTD they are not meant to be able to know who has them ? so will you cash a CTD in against an APN or put it up as surety against one (so in the later it remains)

So here comes stupid question number 2(for today).

Montp have just had a FTTT case. Will NTRT launch a seperate FTTT case? Won't the two be tied together? Why didn't monp raise the issue at the Montp FTTT hearing? Was it not available then?

Please only respond for stuff that can be put publicly.

Cheers

[ASB]

As was stated in the last newsletter, NTRT have sent a technical analysis of the argument to HMRC and are awaiting their response.

If they don't respond promptly, and in the right way, NTRT will proceed with FTT cases.

Procedurally how does this work out ??

Somebody gets picked I guess to go to FTT and there is a result. For simplicity assume there is no appeal either way.

How does this affect other users ? I guess it sets a precedent for anybody is the exact same scheme ? How do they get it to apply to their situation ?

What if it were lost ? Somebody else might still want to individually take their case through. Is this possible ? Obviously if it's the same scheme they would fail at FTT, thus they would have to be committed to appeal ?

[BrilloPad]

I was not aware yout could have more than one FTTT for a scheme. You learn something new every day.

[screwthis]

I was not aware yout could have more than one FTTT for a scheme. You learn something new every day.

Do we know this for sure?

If Huitson fails can we start another FTT case with the George argument or will the court say it's already been lost, pay up?

If we can start another case will it delay payment (for pre APN years) or will we have to pay and then win the second FTT to claim back?

[BrilloPad]

Do we know this for sure?

If Huitson fails can we start another FTT case with the George argument or will the court say it's already been lost, pay up?

If we can start another case will it delay payment (for pre APN years) or will we have to pay and then win the second FTT to claim back?

I am sure NTRT said they had legal opinion on this - surely they wopuld have said if it could not go ahead.

No sign of paying up - and the way things are I think most of us will be dead by the time anything is to be paid. HMRC case looks to be entirely based on bully boy tactics. As Santa said - its like playing chess with a pigeon. All they do it knock the pieces over, crap everywhere and strut round like they have won. Of course thats easy for me to say - no money and I am happy to go on benefits.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

To answer the above questions.

The George argument can't have a lead/test case in the true sense of the word because there is an element which depends on individual circumstances, even though Counsel believes everyone would meet the criteria.

In theory, every one of us would have to take our case to the FTT individually. Obviously we don't want to have to do that. And HMRC probably wouldn't want that either.

If HMRC refuse to engage in meaningful settlement talks then we will have no choice but to start taking cases to the FTT. Probably a handful to start with. We've already got several volunteers lined up.

I'm sure HMRC think we're bluffing but that's their call.

[BrilloPad]

In theory, every one of us would have to take our case to the FTT individually. Obviously we don't want to have to do that. And HMRC probably wouldn't want that either.

I would prefer my own FTTT case. My circumstances are different from anyone elses. I will happily represent myself - done so before(and won every time), will do it again.

Of course this extra paperwork and burden would tie up HMRC for decades. What a pity.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

If Huitson fails can we start another FTT case with the George argument or will the court say it's already been lost, pay up?

We absolutely cannot wait for Huitson to fail. If we did that we would get hit with Follower Notices. If you think APNs are bad, go and read up about FNs.

There is nothing stopping anyone going to the FTT whenever they want. Obviously it's pointless unless you put forward a different legal argument than Huitson. George is an entirely different legal argument (chalk and cheese).

[DonkeyRhubarb]

I would prefer my own FTTT case. My circumstances are different from anyone elses. I will happily represent myself - done so before(and won every time), will do it again.

Of course this extra paperwork and burden would tie up HMRC for decades. What a pity.

Representing yourself is not recommended but if someone did insist on doing this then we could provide a DIY toolkit with all the legal guff.