No To Retro Tax – Campaign Against Section 58 Finance Act 2008

[screwthis]

So basically, HMRC get what NTRT may have offered up as a settlement compromise (the tax shortfall but NO interest; not sure about N.I. payments though), but then keep the option to get the interest too later, if they can be bothered to actually debate the issue in a First Tier Tax Tribunal.

Timing wise, of course this would allow HMRC to issue payment notices in July, collect in October (not just from us, but all 65,000 pending cases), and in turn this ill-gotten bounty would then allow George Osborne to offer up various sweetners in his April 2015 budget, just in time for the election. If it pays off for them, then by picking the low hanging fruit early, their scam has worked. If it doesn't, then the next governemnt can always chase up the interest element, if they believe it is worth the effort, and if HMRC can get their act together - I know, a long shot!!

So could this produce at least some vague form of silver lining (to those who have the means to pay) in that it may make them a lot less bothered about chasing the interest? After all they will celebrate, laugh, go home and have their bi-annual session with the misses and maybe, just maybe we will drop off their priority radar?

[Cantthinkof1]

So basically, HMRC get what NTRT may have offered up as a settlement compromise (the tax shortfall but NO interest; not sure about N.I. payments though), but then keep the option to get the interest too later, if they can be bothered to actually debate the issue in a First Tier Tax Tribunal.

Timing wise, of course this would allow HMRC to issue payment notices in July, collect in October (not just from us, but all 65,000 pending cases), and in turn this ill-gotten bounty would then allow George Osborne to offer up various sweetners in his April 2015 budget, just in time for the election. If it pays off for them, then by picking the low hanging fruit early, their scam has worked. If it doesn't, then the next governemnt can always chase up the interest element, if they believe it is worth the effort, and if HMRC can get their act together - I know, a long shot!!

I think that the Royal assent happens in July, so my guess is that either late August or early September. I notice that HMRC used a "fictitiuos date" of 1st September 2014, so I think we may be looking at about then for that "brown envelope".
Still, as DR mentioned in an earlier posting, it has to be debated and my guess is that there will be tweaks along the way, so fingers crossed at the 11th hour for a miracle, but not too hopeful I must admit.

I agree that with the extra money they could potentially pull in at short notice will help to persuade the electorate how well the Government have done and that "everything in the garden" is rosy, except in my case I don't think bus shelters come with gardens!

[Cantthinkof1]

So could this produce at least some vague form of silver lining (to those who have the means to pay) in that it may make them a lot less bothered about chasing the interest? After all they will celebrate, laugh, go home and have their bi-annual session with the misses and maybe, just maybe we will drop off their priority radar?

Maybe a bronze lining! - not sure about a silver lining. I must admit the proposals do not really cover the "interest side of things!" so maybe because they have taken so many years to get round to this, hopefully it may go in our favour....oh, hold on, was that just a pig I saw flying through the sky!!

I still think that we have a very good case for paying zero interest, as HMRC should have progressed this via tax tribunals much earlier, instead of sitting on things!!

[lucozade]

So in skimming the most recent of conversations these proposals will basically force us all into paying before any of us have had our day in court?

Is this how a supposed democratic government works? Just keep changing the law until it suits the government!

I'm sick to the back teeth with all of this as I'm sure we all are.

This kind of puts paid to the idea of NTRT too.

[bananarepublic]

Affect of paying tax up front ... and questions

So basically we will have to pay the tax element of the bill when we get one of these notices, but not the interest portion of the bill. The interest stops accruing once they have the tax money - which is logical. The historic interest that has accrued against the tax bill is then paid once the case has gone through the tribunals.

Got a couple of questions -
1) I have got some CTD's. How does the new regime affect these? Are they going to be legislated away?
2) Can CTD's be used to pay the up front demand?
3) If we have to pay the tax bill up front, I assume that the interest calculation that we pay later will take into account when the CTD's were purchased?

I don't want to find that suddenly my CTD's - which I have held for years - suddenly don't protect me against the historic interest accruals.
Obviously

[reckless]

Further thought

Thinking on the bright side however, HMRC may have bitten off more than they can chew, with this DOTAS Acceleration proposal. Up until now, it has only been a couple of thousand contractor 'scum' who have been targeted. However, I am sure that amongst the 65,000 people awaiting their tax tribunal decision, there will be many 'establishment' figures and old Etonians, not to mention MPs, who could be seriously disadvantaged. That in itself, may be sufficient to drown this proposal at birth.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

Got a couple of questions -
1) I have got some CTD's. How does the new regime affect these? Are they going to be legislated away? NO
2) Can CTD's be used to pay the up front demand? YES
3) If we have to pay the tax bill up front, I assume that the interest calculation that we pay later will take into account when the CTD's were purchased? YES - although their systems may not be set up to handle this

In my opinion.

[Disgusted of Coventry]

Thinking on the bright side however, HMRC may have bitten off more than they can chew...

I'm wondering if the Margin of Appreciation might make another appearance in the not-too-distant future. Somewhere in the A1P1 literature it said that this Margin, although wide, is not allowed to be of infinite width.

Ok, so that doesn't sound particularly restrictive. But what if you replace 'infinite' with 'beyond reach' (if that's a fair substitution)? I can't help thinking that there ought to be a strong argument for saying that to put the Law & Due Process so far out of reach (and to do it so dismissively) far exceeds the intentions of the Margin of Appreciation.

[screwthis]

Complaint

Wonder what happens if we are forced to cough up this year and the complaint succeeds??

Nothing I guess..........

[Rhydd]

The impact of paying tax that HMRC says is due on a DOTAS scheme would be much more severe on the taxpayer than the impact on the Treasury of not having the revenue.

If this is seriously proposed, then HMRC needs to face a penalty if they take tax that subsequently is found never to have been due.

To discourage HMRC from simply demanding tax from everyone who reports that they used a scheme, the cost should be asymetric, perhaps a penalty against HMRC of 10% above base rate paid by HMRC to the taxpayer if the taxpayer wins in court.

Also:

"More businesses challenge HMRC decisions as 'unlawful'":

Shout99 : More businesses challenge HMRC decisions as 'unlawful'