No To Retro Tax – Campaign Against Section 58 Finance Act 2008

[moira under the stairs]

...it just depends on which day of the week it is. I remember hearing that from my Physics teacher a long time ago when schools actually taught Physics rather than how to pass the exam! I digress.

The Parliamentarians being referred to are either an MP or a Minister when they speak - not both. Odd I know, but when Darling was a Minister he spoke as the Minister. Now as he has returned from planet Gaga, and regained his senses, he is speaking as an MP. The same is true of Mr. Gauke, Osborne and the likes except the other way around. The Minister is NOT a person and this may sound like I have taken up residence on Gaga street, but there's little point referring to Mr. Gauke when you are rightly lambasting what is being said by "him". The Minister is a function and a service. An MP is a person. It takes some getting your head around but I'm afraid that explains why when the Opposition say Black and the Government say Blue, then after the roles are reversed the Government still say Blue.

It may sound that all is lost. But that's not the case. You see, when my Physics teacher used the above explanation for the confounding way light can change form and back again whenever it suits, much to the annoyance of the "observer", he also said this:

"It behaves like a wave on Mon, Tue & Wed, then like a particle on Thu, Fri & Sat". When someone asked "what about Sunday", he said "it is both. Because on God's Day it cannot lie or cheat".

There's a moral in that when you consider an MP who becomes a Minister. Maybe they will start reading our "Book of Revelation, Section 58"...

Theres one of my 18 today.......

[OldITGit]

Are we still

pursuing the Ombudsman route regarding the actions, statements and testimonies made by HMRC which we have the documentation to refute.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

pursuing the Ombudsman route regarding the actions, statements and testimonies made by HMRC which we have the documentation to refute.

Yes, this will be covered in the newsletter.

[the great escape]

Conservative and LibDem MPs would not allow the Government to be defeated over something as "trivial" as this.

When push came to shove, they would all fall into line. And any that dissented, especially Tory MPs, would be whipped to buggery.

So how does the tide turn then? If there's no out voting the govt how are things supposed to change? Some epiphany within the HMRC with a directive to the govt. that things 'on closer examination, things don't apply'? A resignation perhaps?

I can see the drumming up of support before a vote is taken. Or is it all just a ploy to draw out confessions and commit members to a worded response for use against them later - maybe. I hope this remains an Agatha Christie that Í can finally put down after reading and not real life.

[mrkitchen]

Appeals by Huitson (MontP) and Shiner (PwC) to the ECHR need to be made by 6 August, 6 months after being turned down by the Supreme Court.

KPMG on behalf of Steed lodged a direct application a few years ago. It is my understanding that the ECHR vets applications and weeds out frivolous ones within 6 months of application. KPMG/Steed are therefore still waiting for a listing.

I expect that we will know who is doing what with who in this regard later in August.

So, good question but just be patient.

Thanks, will be patient, just wanted an update and the comfort that wheels are turning in the background.

I have donated and fully behind the campaign, great job by all and sundry, just wish I had the support of my local Tory MP.

All the emails, letters and meetings, he continues to roll out the Gauke speak, no backbone, a career politician, constituents just an inconvenience. However I continue to pester him at every opportunity, I believe he will be present at the re-opening of our local railway station, therefore an opportunity to have another word in his shell.

[slogger]

House of lords worth approaching?

Not a great knowledge of political/legal system but is there any chance of getting s58 section of finance bill blocked/amended by house of lords?
I realise they have no power of veto but can get things amended, maybe worth approaching now?

[OnYourBikeGB]

A couple of constituents have met Gauke and he trotted out the usual guff but there was no real conviction behind what he was saying.

He did say to one constituent that this "wasn't HMRC's finest hour".

That's what happens when they let the tail wag the dog, problem is he's still letting it happen.

Nice remark about HMRC. What do you think Brannigan? Now everyone thinks you're a tulip.

[javadude]

They're not up to S58 yet but Jacob Rees-Mogg is speaking and he's brilliant. Not just what he says but how he says it.

He said that if MPs were so incompetent that they passed tax law with loopholes then they shouldn't blame people for not guessing what parliament might have meant and paying more than they legally had to. He said something like tax is not a matter of morality but something that should be based on the law.

[BolshieBastard]

Not a great knowledge of political/legal system but is there any chance of getting s58 section of finance bill blocked/amended by house of lords?
I realise they have no power of veto but can get things amended, maybe worth approaching now?

Nope, not a chance. By Parliamentary convention after a clash between the HoL and the HoC over a budget in the early 20th Century that eventually lead to the Parliamentary Act, the Lords bowed to the Commons' supremacy on any Finance Act.

There's no way the HoL can interfer with this Bill.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

They're not up to S58 yet but Jacob Rees-Mogg is speaking and he's brilliant. Not just what he says but how he says it.

Just to reiterate what I said yesterday, we are not expecting S58 to get raised.