BN66 - Court of Appeal and beyond

[Fireship]

Yep, think it is about 50/50. I would now be up for a deal. Like a lot of people I am just a little weary!! I have just turned 60, so not got as much fight in me as I had 20 years ago.
I note one posting saying that some people just don't have the money to negotiate, and while I can understand that, is it not the case that we could be even worse off financially in a couple of years time or as long as it takes to finally resolve this matter? .....

No because:

1) We may win.
2) At the very least we’ll have extra time to make the necessary safeguards and save more money.

MP always said they would take this to the HoL (now the SC) and beyond if required, in which case it’s unfair of individual clients to now start stamping their feet and saying they don’t want to – everyone was aware of how far this might go no matter how improbable based on legislation at the time. You were told how far we might have to go to fight this and you were willing, if you weren’t you shouldn’t have joined!!

To ask MP to back down know is unfair on those of us who have no choice but to fight on. If you want to enter into negotiations then you should do so on your own behalf and allow the rest of us the legal process we we’re promised!

You say you’ve just turned 60 and are weary of the fight, I can understand that however I’m a little younger, approx another 25 years to go before I retire! If people like yourself are allowed to undermine any progression of the legal process (despite your initial implied willingness to fight) then I’ll be bankrupt, my family (including children aged 1 and 2) will thrown out of the family home with nowhere to live, and I’ll never be able to work again (for the reasons pointed out by Émigré above) have no chance of establishing myself and providing a safe environment and future for my children!

I’m sorry, but the doom mongers on the forum who now want to do a U-turn are threatening to deprive the rest of us (and our families) of any possibility of a future!!! Given we all knew the lengths we may have to go to fight this that’s just selfish and unfair…..

[Morlock]

Get Real

There are an awful lot of people on here talking about "deals", "negotiation", etc with HMRC as if "HMRC" were a reasonable, sane human being with a set of recognisable ethics and values.
It's not.
It's a bureaucratic, red-tape-ridden, arm of government staffed with underpaid, over-worked civil servants whose highest aspiration is to hang on for retirement in the hope that nobody realises how incompetent they are, and who have no interest in alleviating the troubles of what they perceive as a bunch of high-earning, over-achieving arrogant tax-dodgers who thought they could get one over on the Revenue.
If you want to try going down the "negotiation" route, then good luck. But don't for one moment think it will be any less stressful than the current legal process.

[Cantthinkof1]

No because:

1) We may win.
2) At the very least we’ll have extra time to make the necessary safeguards and save more money.

MP always said they would take this to the HoL (now the SC) and beyond if required, in which case it’s unfair of individual clients to now start stamping their feet and saying they don’t want to – everyone was aware of how far this might go no matter how improbable based on legislation at the time. You were told how far we might have to go to fight this and you were willing, if you weren’t you shouldn’t have joined!!

To ask MP to back down know is unfair on those of us who have no choice but to fight on. If you want to enter into negotiations then you should do so on your own behalf and allow the rest of us the legal process we we’re promised!

You say you’ve just turned 60 and are weary of the fight, I can understand that however I’m a little younger, approx another 25 years to go before I retire! If people like yourself are allowed to undermine any progression of the legal process (despite your initial implied willingness to fight) then I’ll be bankrupt, my family (including children aged 1 and 2) will thrown out of the family home with nowhere to live, and I’ll never be able to work again (for the reasons pointed out by Émigré above) have no chance of establishing myself and providing a safe environment and future for my children!

I’m sorry, but the doom mongers on the forum who now want to do a U-turn are threatening to deprive the rest of us (and our families) of any possibility of a future!!! Given we all knew the lengths we may have to go to fight this that’s just selfish and unfair…..

Fireship, these are BAD times for all of us, through no fault of our own. I think your underlying assumption is that I have the money to pay it - I DON'T, thus the naive hope of some sort of settlement!
LIKE YOU - I also have two children and a wife, who, LIKE YOU, face loosing their home, so I sympathise with you.

My only worry is if were to loose in the SC, then WHAT? - I think at that stage then the HMRC may well act and act QUICKLY!!

It is not my intention to undermine any part of the legal process...

[OnYourBikeGB]

There are an awful lot of people on here talking about "deals", "negotiation", etc with HMRC as if "HMRC" were a reasonable, sane human being with a set of recognisable ethics and values.
It's not.
It's a bureaucratic, red-tape-ridden, arm of government staffed with underpaid, over-worked civil servants whose highest aspiration is to hang on for retirement in the hope that nobody realises how incompetent they are, and who have no interest in alleviating the troubles of what they perceive as a bunch of high-earning, over-achieving arrogant tax-dodgers who thought they could get one over on the Revenue.
If you want to try going down the "negotiation" route, then good luck. But don't for one moment think it will be any less stressful than the current legal process.

I agree 100%. Another thing at the back of my mind is that extending our beating suits them too, it sends out a warning. Personally, I think we face a huge battle. There has not been one single criticism of HMRC, while we have been picked apart. We might get lucky, we more likely will not. In terms of settling - I would be deeply surprised if this is offered, unless it is possible to get political pressure applied. But I doubt it, because the politicians have already shown both their faces. To me, I cannot see the point in settling. I can just about get it together, but if I pay up now - will I be tortured for the next year or so wondering if I'd just given away a 6 figure sum when there was still a flicker of hope? Psychologically, I think I am better off keeping it for now and waiting, not in anticipation of a victory, but simply because I don't have to give it to them yet.

[SantaClaus]

Two points:

Anyone who thinks HMRC will negotiate after 2 outright victories must be crazy!

It's not going to cost a lot in the grand scheme of things to hold on until the SC. Interest rates are ridiculously low.

[sjw]

No because:

1) We may win.
2) At the very least we’ll have extra time to make the necessary safeguards and save more money.

MP always said they would take this to the HoL (now the SC) and beyond if required, in which case it’s unfair of individual clients to now start stamping their feet and saying they don’t want to – everyone was aware of how far this might go no matter how improbable based on legislation at the time. You were told how far we might have to go to fight this and you were willing, if you weren’t you shouldn’t have joined!!

To ask MP to back down know is unfair on those of us who have no choice but to fight on. If you want to enter into negotiations then you should do so on your own behalf and allow the rest of us the legal process we we’re promised!

You say you’ve just turned 60 and are weary of the fight, I can understand that however I’m a little younger, approx another 25 years to go before I retire! If people like yourself are allowed to undermine any progression of the legal process (despite your initial implied willingness to fight) then I’ll be bankrupt, my family (including children aged 1 and 2) will thrown out of the family home with nowhere to live, and I’ll never be able to work again (for the reasons pointed out by Émigré above) have no chance of establishing myself and providing a safe environment and future for my children!

I’m sorry, but the doom mongers on the forum who now want to do a U-turn are threatening to deprive the rest of us (and our families) of any possibility of a future!!! Given we all knew the lengths we may have to go to fight this that’s just selfish and unfair…..

Actually Montpelier said they would fight it, but ho ho ho, it would never get to this stage.

And did we really know the lengths we'd have to go to? If we did why are people on this forum saying they wished they'd taken out a CTD but hadn't because of the advice given to them by Montpelier? Because if I'd had half an inkling it would take this long I would have done so long ago.

If Montpelier want to refund my fees (generously I'll even let them keep the interest it's earned) then I'll happily take my chances on my jack with Hector. If not then I've paid for a service, and I retain my right to manage my affairs as I see fit.

[RockTheBoat]

they can negotiate with me over my dead body.

The CoA was a process to check that the HC judge was correct in points of law. Within their remit they decided he was, I suspect unless he made a massive error in law, they would all agree to support him in this.

The SC is a different matter. If we fail in the SC I'd be looking for partners to setup a fighting fund to ECHR.

I'd rather lawyers got their hands on my money than the scum at HMRC.

agreed

I dont have much to add to the current thread that hasnt already been said. I for one however have no intention of grovelling up to Her Majesty's Thugs as I dont see that as being an option. I will be fighting this to the end with DR, Emigre and the rest of the BN66'ers

[RingStinger]

I think peoples reaction is directly related to the size of their liability and available funds.

If you're a dead cert bankruptcy case and there are plenty on here who are, then you may as well hang on. What else can you do?

If you can afford to pay, I can understand you wanting it off your back. No doubt this is the lot that are bleating on the loudest about deals etc ....

If, like me, you have a huge liability which in theory could be met by selling the family home ....... what do you do, sell up now and put your family in a bedsit? Or sit it out a bit longer with the hope of the SC ruling in our favour. Sorry, but I ain't ready for the bedsit route just yet ...

[SantaClaus]

Also, we have strength in numbers. It's important to keep the group together so HMRC don't pick us off one by one.

[moira under the stairs]

Also, we have strength in numbers. It's important to keep the group together so HMRC don't pick us off one by one.

Count me in Santa wiv you and the courageous