BN66 - Court of Appeal and beyond

[ContractIn]

As far as I'm aware, if the Supreme Court refuse an application, that is the end of the matter.

In that event, the only course open to Montpelier would be to apply to Strasbourg.

For what it's worth, I am totally confident that they will grant us permission.

The biggy for me is how many judges we get on the panel.

Minimum 5 -

7 -

Maximum 9 -

Thanks DR, fingers crossed.

[Disgusted of Coventry]

Forget HMRC. They may be named as the respondent in the case but it is the legislature (Parliament) which is "on trial".

The claimant alleges that primary legislation, enacted by Parliament, is in breach of Parliament's own Human Rights Act. There can be no doubting how serious that is.

The case raises important matters of principle. It could also establish a precedent for further legislation. It has all the hallmarks of a landmark case defining case law in this area.

If the Supreme Court refuses permission then they know it's too important for it to rest there, and it will end up in Strasbourg. That would be very embarassing for the highest court in the land given it's pivotal role in upholding the European Convention on Human Rights.

The Supreme Court and Europe - The Supreme Court

IMO, they will grant permission for exactly the same reason as the Court of Appeal did, namely that it is overwhelmingly in the public interest for the case to be heard.

Many thanks for this (again!).

From what you're saying, it looks as if the Supreme Court would be the most appropriate venue for this case anyway.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

From what you're saying, it looks as if the Supreme Court would be the most appropriate venue for this case anyway.

I agree but, as others have said, it's easy to keep saying next time will be different.

It would be wishful thinking to dismiss the High Court and especially the Court of Appeal.

That is why I have no expectations.

Having said that, I am looking forward to round 3.

Bring it on!

[DonkeyRhubarb]

Retrospective clarification

I stumbled on something mildly interesting.

Open the court of appeal judgment.

Huitson, R (on the application of) v HM Revenue and Customs [2011] EWCA Civ 893 (25 July 2011)

Now search for the words "clarify" or "clarification". You won't find a single instance.

Now read the Result at the end of the judgment.

Note the wording the Judge uses:

retrospective provisions of the 2008 Act
retrospective legislation of s.58
retrospective amendments
retrospective application of the amended legislation

The court has recognised s58 for what it really is ie. a retrospective change of the law. They haven't fallen for HMRC's "clarification" subterfuge.

At least this moves the debate on for when we get to the Supreme Court.

[bve534]

The key word "Retrospective"

I stumbled on something mildly interesting.

retrospective provisions of the 2008 Act
retrospective legislation of s.58
retrospective amendments
retrospective application of the amended legislation

DR - I had already discussed with WG (prior to the High Court case judgement)that in the event the word "retrospective" was mentioned in any judgement then we might have a case for our own time machine ref pension payments. In the event it was not mentioned in the correct terms until the CoA judgement and I saw this as a real opportunity because the judiciary have clearly stated it is retrospective. As you know (apart from one other blogger) I have received no support for this approach.

[MrX]

Angry And Concerned

I originally received a closure notice for one of my tax years on 23rd Dec dated 15th Dec. I emailed this to MP and a reply/appeal was send on 3rd Jan. Today, 7th Jan, I received a "Final Reminder" from them dated 23 Dec! This letter goes on to say "If you don't pay now the debt will be passed to our debt collection service..." I've tried contacting them today but it's a Saturday and no one seems to be in the office.

Can someone please clarify a few points on this for me?
a) I understood that HMRC were not enforcing collections. If this is the case then why have I been issued with this letter?
b) I thought you had one month to appeal the closure notice. So as long as it is appealed by 15 Jan, that should be ok right?
c) What happens if the "debt collection agency" shows up on my doorstep? Is there a useful contact number that I can have in case they appear at a weekend.

FYI, I've checked online and my account has not as yet had the money appealed.

Thanks.

[BolshieBastard]

I originally received a closure notice for one of my tax years on 23rd Dec dated 15th Dec. I emailed this to MP and a reply/appeal was send on 3rd Jan. Today, 7th Jan, I received a "Final Reminder" from them dated 23 Dec! This letter goes on to say "If you don't pay now the debt will be passed to our debt collection service..." I've tried contacting them today but it's a Saturday and no one seems to be in the office.

Can someone please clarify a few points on this for me?
a) I understood that HMRC were not enforcing collections. If this is the case then why have I been issued with this letter?
b) I thought you had one month to appeal the closure notice. So as long as it is appealed by 15 Jan, that should be ok right?
c) What happens if the "debt collection agency" shows up on my doorstep? Is there a useful contact number that I can have in case they appear at a weekend.

FYI, I've checked online and my account has not as yet had the money appealed.

Thanks.

First thing, get onto MP first thing monday morning.

Its likely the tax office has jumped the gun but you need to be certain MP have appealled the CN and let MP deal with it.

If any debt collector turns up on your doorstep, do not open the door to them. They will have to identify themselves. They cannot gain entry unless you invite them in or they have been granted access by a court.

If they are without Police, I'd still refuse entry and tell them your agent MP is dealing with this. Then tell them to go forth and fornicate.

[MrX]

Thanks BB. I have emailed the letter to MP and will contact them on Monday morning. I have a copy of the appeal that was sent on 3rd Jan by MP so I'm pretty confident that it will be appealed in time. I just hope that incompetence does not take over and these guys show up!

[orientalist]

Thanks BB. I have emailed the letter to MP and will contact them on Monday morning. I have a copy of the appeal that was sent on 3rd Jan by MP so I'm pretty confident that it will be appealed in time. I just hope that incompetence does not take over and these guys show up!

Mr X, I had them turn up at my house a couple of years ago, its frustrating and annoying but as BB has mentioned MP will sort it (brilliantly) , don't over worry, I haven't given them a thought in two years.

A crumb of comfort, in the 4 years this has dragged on the the Interest Rates have been very low, I'm sure some clever bods out there will tell us the NPV or Discounted Value or diminishing real term value of any debt over this period (and this only applies if we lose).

Frankly this whole affair is the civil service at its worst, enabled when the great and the good gave way to the heartless and the mean in Government....

[BrilloPad]

I originally received a closure notice for one of my tax years on 23rd Dec dated 15th Dec. I emailed this to MP and a reply/appeal was send on 3rd Jan. Today, 7th Jan, I received a "Final Reminder" from them dated 23 Dec! This letter goes on to say "If you don't pay now the debt will be passed to our debt collection service..." I've tried contacting them today but it's a Saturday and no one seems to be in the office.

Can someone please clarify a few points on this for me?
a) I understood that HMRC were not enforcing collections. If this is the case then why have I been issued with this letter?
b) I thought you had one month to appeal the closure notice. So as long as it is appealed by 15 Jan, that should be ok right?
c) What happens if the "debt collection agency" shows up on my doorstep? Is there a useful contact number that I can have in case they appear at a weekend.

FYI, I've checked online and my account has not as yet had the money appealed.

Thanks.

I got one of those letters. MP had appealed - but HMRC are totally incompetent. They are just trying the bully boy tactics. Get on MP asap.