BN66 - Round 2 (Court of Appeal)

[prozak]

BombyCat,

yes I am 75% confident it wont be retrospective.

As far as I can tell with my limited knowledge is the reason they are seeking to make BN66 retrospective is because it was supposedly already legislated against... .doesn't make it fair...

my comment about hiding assets was about people caught by BN66..... I THINK even if the EBT closure was retrospective I could avoid any tax by repaying the loan.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

Hiding assets

I have been asked about this a few times and it's worth pointing out the following.

If you are unable to pay a large tax bill, HMRC will petition the courts for bankruptcy.

The Trustees appointed by the court can go back 5 years through all your financial affairs searching for irregularities.

They will look for any disposals of assets at below market value eg. gifting your share of the house to your spouse. They have the powers to try and recover these assets.

The following activities could result in criminal prosecution.

1) Wreckless speculation eg. going to Las Vegas and sticking everything on black.

2) Concealing assets eg. hiding your money abroad.

What Happens If I Am Not Honest In Bankruptcy?

Former comedian goes to jail for trying to hide assets in his bankruptcy

[Donnie Darko]

The "skip" solution

I know several people who've already done this.

http://www.debtsecrets.co.uk/escapin...a-debt-problem

I consider BN66 to be state sponsored theft, so personally I wouldn't blame anyone for doing this.

Sadly it's not an option for me, otherwise I would have fu<ked off ages ago.

[prozak]

I have been asked about this a few times and it's worth pointing out the following.

If you are unable to pay a large tax bill, HMRC will petition the courts for bankruptcy.

The Trustees appointed by the court can go back 5 years through all your financial affairs searching for irregularities.

They will look for any disposals of assets at below market value eg. gifting your share of the house to your spouse. They have the powers to try and recover these assets.

The following activities could result in criminal prosecution.

1) Wreckless speculation eg. going to Las Vegas and sticking everything on black.

2) Concealing assets eg. hiding your money abroad.

What Happens If I Am Not Honest In Bankruptcy?

Former comedian goes to jail for trying to hide assets in his bankruptcy

Donkey,

But you are not bankrupt yet.

Do you even have a creditor yet?

I think a lot of what the bankruptcy trustee can do depends on when you disposed of assets. E.g. If today I gifted my children all my assets and tomorrow something happend that resulted in me being sued (for whatever reason)... then my understanding is that the assets given to my children are free and clear.....

I imagine if you now transferred your assets to your wife, HMRC would argue that you indeed knew of the debt and will reverse the transaction, and they have the asset in this country.

Now they could argue such things if you had a store of cash offshore......... but surely they need to prove you actually do have the assets? They need to prove that your assets were disposed of for avoiding creditors?

I still have 100% confidence in Swiss privacy laws, as long as your funds are not the proceeds of criminal activity (as defined in switzerland).

[DonkeyRhubarb]

Now they could argue such things if you had a store of cash offshore......... but surely they need to prove you actually do have the assets? They need to prove that your assets were disposed of for avoiding creditors?

It would be very difficult for us to claim that we weren't disposing of assets to avoid creditors since (a) we've received Closure Notices from HMRC which we have appealed and (b) we've already lost one high profile case in the High Court.

The money may be hidden once it was offshore but you cannot hide the fact that the assets had previously existed in the UK.

Selling property, remortgaging or making large withdrawals will leave an audit trail that would stand out a mile to Trustees in a bankruptcy investigation.

I am sure HMRC would love us to do this so they could ultimately see us all behind bars.

[Samatra]

Closure Notice

Hi

I have recieved my closure notices yesterday.
Can any one advise me who I need to contact to get these apealed ?

Many thanks and a Happy New Year to everyone on this board.


Regards

SAM

[Toocan]

...
the reason they are seeking to make BN66 retrospective is because it was supposedly already legislated against[by the 1987 Padmore legislation]... .doesn't make it fair...

Judge Parker in the High Court did not consider the 1987 legislaiton to apply to the scheme. He did not consider whether Parliament had been misled, but given that s.58 was presented to Parliament as a clarificaiton, and given that the 1987 legislation certainly did not apply to the scheme - how can Parliament have been anything but misled.

Anyone see an elephant in the room?

[bmmc]

Bill Received, Advice?

Hi all,

I received a letter from HMRC the other day, asking for circa £150k in tax + interest for 3.5 years in the Montpelier scheme. I ceased this sometime in 2007 as I could see it would be closed and wanted to get myself set up early with something else. Obviously the retrospective nature of things has captured me. Have others received these, what seem like final bills, as yet? There are a lot of posts on here, but it appears many have just been informed of being investigated so far (I received this a few years back, but generally heard very little from them).

I can apparently write to them in 30 days to say that I have been treated unfairly, but payment has been demanded for the total in about 4 weeks time. Given that I cannot make this payment, what are my options?

My head is in a bit of a spin at present, but I suppose I think my options are to write to HMRC saying

a) I think I am being treated unfairly due to the retrospective nature
b) aside from point a, interest on tax that wasn't due at the time shouldn't be allowed

None of these are new as I am simply restating old arguments. I would also say to them that due to letters being delayed over Christmas and many offices being closed, the real time that I have to seek professional advice is markedly reduced and therefore they should give me an extension to be able to seek advice.

I think what I am wondering though, is it worthwhile to try and arrange a meeting with HMRC to discuss some of these, perhaps see if they'd consider cancelling the interest, reducing the liability and allowing me to enter a payment plan with them? Would I be foolish to do this without professional advice and if so, where should I get this (and would it be expensive)?

Would HMRC even be interested in trying to work with me on this or are they after blood? If I were bankrupted it would severely limit my chances of being a regular higher rate taxpayer in the future given my new career (outside of IT)

From what I can see, the appeal judgement hasn't been released yet, so should I mention this in my letter?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[OnYourBikeGB]

Hi all,

I received a letter from HMRC the other day, asking for circa £150k in tax + interest for 3.5 years in the Montpelier scheme. I ceased this sometime in 2007 as I could see it would be closed and wanted to get myself set up early with something else. Obviously the retrospective nature of things has captured me. Have others received these, what seem like final bills, as yet? There are a lot of posts on here, but it appears many have just been informed of being investigated so far (I received this a few years back, but generally heard very little from them).

I can apparently write to them in 30 days to say that I have been treated unfairly, but payment has been demanded for the total in about 4 weeks time. Given that I cannot make this payment, what are my options?

My head is in a bit of a spin at present, but I suppose I think my options are to write to HMRC saying

a) I think I am being treated unfairly due to the retrospective nature
b) aside from point a, interest on tax that wasn't due at the time shouldn't be allowed

None of these are new as I am simply restating old arguments. I would also say to them that due to letters being delayed over Christmas and many offices being closed, the real time that I have to seek professional advice is markedly reduced and therefore they should give me an extension to be able to seek advice.

I think what I am wondering though, is it worthwhile to try and arrange a meeting with HMRC to discuss some of these, perhaps see if they'd consider cancelling the interest, reducing the liability and allowing me to enter a payment plan with them? Would I be foolish to do this without professional advice and if so, where should I get this (and would it be expensive)?

Would HMRC even be interested in trying to work with me on this or are they after blood? If I were bankrupted it would severely limit my chances of being a regular higher rate taxpayer in the future given my new career (outside of IT)

From what I can see, the appeal judgement hasn't been released yet, so should I mention this in my letter?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Funny how once again there seems to have been another round of these letters at Christmas. As soon as the Montpelier open up next week give NW a call, they will lodge the appeal on your behalf. They have all been accepted, so shouldn't be a problem. Of course we wil most likely have the judgement by then, but no-one knows what will happen next, so definitely get the appeal lodged, as there is a possibility that there may still time for this to run, possibly years. HMRCs blatant psychological warfare has been nothing short of sadistic.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

Funny how once again there seems to have been another round of these letters at Christmas.

It doesn't help that they send them 2nd class which means they can take ages at this time of the year, giving people even less time to appeal.

Important

If you do receive anything from HMRC, do not take matters into your own hands.

Contact Montpelier immediately and let them deal with it.