Limited company and Subsitance

[Lewis]

Just looked in on this one - evidently I've missed all the fun.

My view is that there is a world of difference between claiming for the odd sandwich and coffee whilst on site, and systematically claiming up to what, £25 a day for lunch, evening meals, even breakfast I've seen touted about by the less than scupulous.

Look at the advice from the Revenue:

"would not challenge such a claim, provided it seemed reasonable "

Reasonable is not defined in tax statute, therefore it would be down to the Revenue to define what they consider reasonable.

Also, any claim would be subject to the "wholly and exclusively" rule - Revenue practice has no basis in law, so if they wanted to they could add back the entire amount and you would have no recourse.

The Revenue do and have changed their minds on many occasions over things like this, so to rely on a phone conversation with them is optimistic at best.

So does around £4 per day for sandwiches sound reasonable? (I am curently only claiming travel to this temporary workplace)

Also, I don't have receipts because the in-house sandwich shop/vending machines work by deducting money from a pre-pay card that doubles as my building entry pass. Receipts are not available but I do have bank statements showing "XXXX Food Services" which show every time I have loaded my card. Would that be ok as an alternative to receipts?

Thanks as always

[Maxamus]

i spent on average around 3/4 quid on lunch everyday.....

i catch the 7.26am train on a morning and get back at home for around 7.20pm.......normally out the house for over 12hrs a day.

Now, shall i consider claiming the lunch?
I was under the impression that subsistance was a no no.....but seems like this is a grey area.

Some people say you can only claim it if you are staying away from home ina hotel etc
and some say you can claim it anyhow......

[Ruprect]

So does around £4 per day for sandwiches sound reasonable? (I am curently only claiming travel to this temporary workplace)

Also, I don't have receipts because the in-house sandwich shop/vending machines work by deducting money from a pre-pay card that doubles as my building entry pass. Receipts are not available but I do have bank statements showing "XXXX Food Services" which show every time I have loaded my card. Would that be ok as an alternative to receipts?

Thanks as always

I would certainly NOT claim anything from any in-house catering facilities - using subsidised employee facilities is an IR35 catch is it not?

[THEPUMA]

I would certainly NOT claim anything from any in-house catering facilities - using subsidised employee facilities is an IR35 catch is it not?

It would at worst be a very minor factor. If you have substitution, lack of control or lack of MOO then you're home and dry. If you don't you are probably in a bit of a sticky situation irrespective of your eating arrangements.

[Let-Me-In]

21:27

[ASB]

Look at the advice from the Revenue:

"would not challenge such a claim, provided it seemed reasonable "

Reasonable is not defined in tax statute, therefore it would be down to the Revenue to define what they consider reasonable.

The reasonable comment was in the context of going to michelin starred restaurants every day so I don't think that that is something to be worried about.

Now, those are both interesting. And I think show some of the problems.

My understanding of these is that from a point of view of the absolute rules if you can show "wholly and exclusively" the "reasonable" does not come into it.

So, if I have to be in London on business and have to stay overnight I could choose to stay in a suite at the Ritz rather than the YMCA. I guess I'd need to show I needed the space to be able to work for other business related things. It's not about options. It's about necessity.

In the context of the IVY as an example, if that happened to be the nearest restaurant to the hotel then it may be reasonable (aargh) to argue that it was necessary due to time constraints, meetings etc.

Ultimately whenever away anywhere there is an element of "abc I'm told is good, I'll give it a bash." That makes the "wholly" difficult to justify - there is something in for one personally.

[Lewis]

So is all this a new revelation and we can in fact claim for lunches as well as travel or is this nothing new and the old advice to not bother still stands?

What are your accountants advising?

[TheFaQQer]

I would certainly NOT claim anything from any in-house catering facilities - using subsidised employee facilities is an IR35 catch is it not?

Theoretically, yes - but it's the least of your worries. MOO, substitution etc. are much more important.

Plus, how do you know that the catering facilities are subsidised or not? What about catering that is not subsidised? What if it were open to non-employees as well?

Unlikely that this is going to be the point that HMRC wins the investigation on!

[THEPUMA]

So is all this a new revelation and we can in fact claim for lunches as well as travel or is this nothing new and the old advice to not bother still stands?

What are your accountants advising?

I would claim them. I believe that they are allowable for the reasons already given.

I guess the quantum is not that huge so on that basis some would prefer not to take the risk, however minimal that can be demonstrated to be.

The expense is probably £5 x 5 x 46 = £1,150 and the tax relief will either be at 20%, 28% or 40% depending upon your circumstances so that equates to £230, £322 or £460.

[Lewis]

I would claim them. I believe that they are allowable for the reasons already given.

I guess the quantum is not that huge so on that basis some would prefer not to take the risk, however minimal that can be demonstrated to be.

The expense is probably £5 x 5 x 46 = £1,150 and the tax relief will either be at 20%, 28% or 40% depending upon your circumstances so that equates to £230, £322 or £460.

That last one is quite tempting what are your thoughts on bank statements showing credits to "XXX Food Services" instead of receipts (which aren't available). The canteen and vending machines are slightly subsidised but they are open to anyone in the building including guests, contractors and staff. Anyone can load a temporary card using cash to buy food and drinks from machines around the building.