Another Consulting Overseas Victim?

[Bumfluff]

Thanks Lewis - no, I'm in Hong Kong, not Oz! Sounds like exactly the scheme I was on though.

Have contacted Accountax to see what they can do. Not sure how they operate though. Do I pay 500 quid for them to review my case and then tell me to "bend over" ... as someone put so eloquently above?

Also surprised that Consulting Overseas are being elusive. They sent me a letter a couple of years back warning that others had received letters and did seem to be planning to fight but I'm not sure whether they won, lost or just went bust.

I know HMRC operate on a "divide and conquer" basis so am really hoping for someone else who's been here and come out the other end.

Bert my mate used the same scheme with Consulting overseas they came after him a couple of years back, the case went to court but they lost due to a screw up by the tax inspector, may be they are having another go. Im still trying to get in touch with the guy for you and when I do I will PM you.

[Bert]

Thanks all.

Have been doing some more research and it looks as though CO are working with a firm of lawyers, Chiltern, to fight HMRC and assist ex-employees. They have a private forum for ex-employees to log into where they have documented progress to date.

At the moment Chiltern have reached an impasse with HMRC (it does appear that HMRC have behaved quite slovenly over the whole thing which is now in its 3rd year. e.g. not responding to letters from Chiltern, not following up on actions, declaring that the FX broker used for the loans did not exist (they looked up a directory of banks instead of brokers!) etc...).

The next step is to put selected test cases in front of the Special Commissioners, estimated to happen by end of this year.

Chiltern appears confident that the scheme was valid based on the facts but I know that when it comes to these kinds of cases that can be irrelevant.

A few years back Chiltern also negotiated settlement terms for the first tranche of employees selected for investigation if they wanted to settle. I think the terms were basically 1. no penalty, 2. if Chiltern wins or HMRC drop the case everyone gets a refund. This looks ok I guess but I suppose the more who settle, the less likely it is that the case will win.

I'm unsure about whether Chiltern will also assist those covered in this latest wave of investigations. Will know on Monday hopefully.

[2uk]

Bert , you were involved in a certain scheme by some company. You are not accountant nor tax specialist.

If the HMRC has sent you a letter claiming tax - this would mean that the HMRC have already prosecuted CO and found that their scheme was illegal. If this is the case why don't you send a letter to the HMRC telling them that "before you pay anything , you will be claiming this amount from OC since they were the body that were operating the scheme and you were merely a customer.

Then ask HMRC to send you the details about the owners/new name of OC and sue them for involving you in a illegal scheme.

I know that these schemes involve loopholes in the law and are technically legal. If HMRC is questioning what CO were doing - then you take the side of HMRC and seek your money from CO.

[Lewis]

Thanks all.

Have been doing some more research and it looks as though CO are working with a firm of lawyers, Chiltern, to fight HMRC and assist ex-employees. They have a private forum for ex-employees to log into where they have documented progress to date.

At the moment Chiltern have reached an impasse with HMRC (it does appear that HMRC have behaved quite slovenly over the whole thing which is now in its 3rd year. e.g. not responding to letters from Chiltern, not following up on actions, declaring that the FX broker used for the loans did not exist (they looked up a directory of banks instead of brokers!) etc...).

The next step is to put selected test cases in front of the Special Commissioners, estimated to happen by end of this year.

Chiltern appears confident that the scheme was valid based on the facts but I know that when it comes to these kinds of cases that can be irrelevant.

A few years back Chiltern also negotiated settlement terms for the first tranche of employees selected for investigation if they wanted to settle. I think the terms were basically 1. no penalty, 2. if Chiltern wins or HMRC drop the case everyone gets a refund. This looks ok I guess but I suppose the more who settle, the less likely it is that the case will win.

I'm unsure about whether Chiltern will also assist those covered in this latest wave of investigations. Will know on Monday hopefully.

Sounds like good news. At least you are not on your own!

[Bert]

Thanks 2UK,

I'm not an accountant or a lawyer, but I'm afraid you are mistaken.
It would not be wise for me to follow your advice as HMRC have not yet proved the scheme illegal.

Thanks Lewis - it does look as if there are a few of us. Whatever happens it looks as though it is going to take another year to get to court.

I'm taking professional advice but options are plainly:

1. Appeal and wait (incurring interest but hopefully no penalty)
2. Settle but try to obtain some confirmation from HMRC that should the case win a refund would be paid.

I guess I'll be updating this thread in a year's time

[ASB]

Thanks 2UK,

I'm not an accountant or a lawyer, but I'm afraid you are mistaken.
It would not be wise for me to follow your advice as HMRC have not yet proved the scheme illegal.

Thanks Lewis - it does look as if there are a few of us. Whatever happens it looks as though it is going to take another year to get to court.

I'm taking professional advice but options are plainly:

1. Appeal and wait (incurring interest but hopefully no penalty)
2. Settle but try to obtain some confirmation from HMRC that should the case win a refund would be paid.

I guess I'll be updating this thread in a year's time

Option 3.

Not quite sure of the mechanics of this but you should be able to find out reasonably easy.

Make a contingent payment to the IR. This does not settle the assessment or anything (if indeed you have received an assessment). Wait for the next move by HMRC, if they defeat the scheme then you use the contingent payments to settle your affairs. If you do this then the interest clock etc stops ticking from the data the payment is made, further if you reclaim the payment a reasonable rate of interest if received.

I'm not quite sure how this all works these days but the intention was that somebody who had a disputed liability would not be effectively punished just for wanting to dispute it.

[Bumfluff]

I guess I'll be updating this thread in a year's time

My mate got his letter about this scheme 4 years ago and its still not sorted, 4 years is alot of interest at 7.5% or whatever it. Hope it works out for you

[collyb]

Hm Customs And Revenue

Hi - I had a letter from HMRC saying I owed an awful lot of money from the CO period 03 - 04 and I was advised by Consulting Overseas to write an appeal sayng that Chiltern were representing me (they pay Chiltern)-

I have since been give conflicting advise about what to do - I now suspect that Chiltern have done a deal with the HMRC to get as many contractors to pay them and the HMRC will not seek to go to court if enough pay ? anyone esle recieved awful large bills from \HMrC in the last month ....??????? I belive the wording should be that Chiltern are being paid to represent me on behalf of OC /Sandfield??
I would like to get a group together to see if we can go after the Directors of CO and sanfield as a group if the HMRC are correct and we have been conned!!!!!!!! I already have about 30 contacts willing ....

[littleearthquake]

Actinium scheme

Hi - I had a letter from HMRC saying I owed an awful lot of money from the CO period 03 - 04 and I was advised by Consulting Overseas to write an appeal sayng that Chiltern were representing me (they pay Chiltern)-

I have since been give conflicting advise about what to do - I now suspect that Chiltern have done a deal with the HMRC to get as many contractors to pay them and the HMRC will not seek to go to court if enough pay ? anyone esle recieved awful large bills from \HMrC in the last month ....??????? I belive the wording should be that Chiltern are being paid to represent me on behalf of OC /Sandfield??
I would like to get a group together to see if we can go after the Directors of CO and sanfield as a group if the HMRC are correct and we have been conned!!!!!!!! I already have about 30 contacts willing ....

How many years did you use CO - did you use their actinium scheme?

[Wilmslow]

I contracted through this lot between 2003-4 and since then have been out of the UK.

Just received a Notice of Further assessment from HMRC "Special Civil Investigations" department for approx 20K for the year to April 2004

Interest is also payable (although not detailed) from Jan 05 and a "surcharge" may also be payable.

I tried to telephone/email Consulting Overseas but the phone goes to voicemail and the emails bounced.

So ..... anyone know anything?

When I signed up they said the scheme was watertight .. had been approved by their tax lawyers etc.. etc.. Obviously not!

Will now be on the hunt for an accountant/lawyer I guess (any recommendations?) but wondered if anyone had any advice or news?

Anything much appreciated.

Personally, I think that anyone using dodgy looking overseas loopholes deserves anything coming their way..... If it looks too good to be true, it normally is.