Contracting at your former employer - Is this a complete no no?

[PurpleGorilla]

With the interests of not being caught under IR35, are there scenarios where a person can sucessfully contract back at a former employer?

i.e.

• With a clear break between employed role and contract role
• Heavily task based - with a clear set of deliverables/dates
• With significantly different working conditions

WOULD YOU/HAVE YOU SUCESSFULLY CONTRACTED BACK AT A FORMER EMPLOYER?

Thanks!

[sartois]

With the interests of not being caught under IR35, are there scenarios where a person can sucessfully contract back at a former employer?

i.e.

• With a clear break between employed role and contract role
• Heavily task based - with a clear set of deliverables/dates
• With significantly different working conditions

WOULD YOU/HAVE YOU SUCESSFULLY CONTRACTED BACK AT A FORMER EMPLOYER?

Thanks!

I do some work with a former employer and am very much outside of IR35 (at least in my opinion). Reason being is that I had to submit a proposal and compete with other companies to win the work, operate under a Master Services Agreement, receive a PO when I am requested to do such work, and invoice them directly following the delivery of work, along with having 90 day payment terms to put up with. So it's a bit different to the normal 3 month contract scenario and am only with them twice a quarter for a couple of days at a time separate to my normal contracting life.

Wouldn't fancy my chances or being outside so much if they were the only company I worked with though under more typical contract conditions. Whilst I don't think I could be any further outside of IR35 for this part of my contracting life I wouldn't be surprised if there are some red flags at HMRC about it but would be easy to defend I think.

[jmo21]

Brolly?

[TykeMerc]

Brolly?

Makes IR35 irrelevant as paid effectively caught.

[sartois]

Makes IR35 irrelevant as paid effectively caught.

This feels like a daft question but if a contract is potentially risky from an IR35 perspective wouldn't it be a better option financially to get insurance against this risk? I mean insurance to provide cover from investigation and penalties can be obtained for about £360 a year, whereas going brolly or inside IR35 would cost far more than £360... wouldn't it?

[jmo21]

Makes IR35 irrelevant as paid effectively caught.

Yes, quite aware of that.

Lets him work for his old company without worrying about IR35.

[BolshieBastard]

With the interests of not being caught under IR35, are there scenarios where a person can sucessfully contract back at a former employer?

i.e.

• With a clear break between employed role and contract role
• Heavily task based - with a clear set of deliverables/dates
• With significantly different working conditions

WOULD YOU/HAVE YOU SUCESSFULLY CONTRACTED BACK AT A FORMER EMPLOYER?

Thanks!

Id suggest a clear break of at least 12 months before going back to a former employer and even then, the job should be totally different. There's nothing in legislation to support this and is just my own observation.

Personally, I'd avoid.

I do some work with a former employer and am very much outside of IR35 (at least in my opinion).

Counts for diddly squat no matter how you try and convince yourself seeing as hmrc determine your status which if appealled, would be determined but the legal process.

Wouldn't fancy my chances or being outside so much if they were the only company I worked with though under more typical contract conditions. Whilst I don't think I could be any further outside of IR35 for this part of my contracting life I wouldn't be surprised if there are some red flags at HMRC about it but would be easy to defend I think.

They use all sorts of tactics to determine who to investigate, sometimes its even just luck of the draw.

Makes IR35 irrelevant as paid effectively caught.

Agreed.

[sartois]

Id suggest a clear break of at least 12 months before going back to a former employer and even then, the job should be totally different. There's nothing in legislation to support this and is just my own observation.

Personally, I'd avoid.

If I had waited 12 months I would not have won the business (it would simply have been given to a competing company) and would not be a smart business move considering how much I charge for the services to this company. Also, I do not have the marketing budget of larger, more established companies to sell this service to other companies that do not know me. If there is nothing in legislation then why would this be something to be concerned about and why should a company miss out on a potential opportunity because of this?

Regardless of who the company is and my relationship to them, surely if everything about my engagement with them suggests I am outside of IR35 (and I am) then I am outside IR35?

[TheFaQQer]

Regardless of who the company is and my relationship to them, surely if everything about my engagement with them suggests I am outside of IR35 (and I am) then I am outside IR35?

If you can show one of:

1) Right of Substitution

2) Lack of Mutuality of Obligation

3) Lack of Direction and Control

Then you are outside IR35; if HMRC can prove all three inside, then you are inside IR35.

I'd guess that you have a reasonable chance of being able to show at least one of the three, but it's just my guess.

[TheFaQQer]

With the interests of not being caught under IR35, are there scenarios where a person can sucessfully contract back at a former employer?

Yes - different role, different level of control, ability to substitute...

WOULD YOU/HAVE YOU SUCESSFULLY CONTRACTED BACK AT A FORMER EMPLOYER?

Of my two employers, one of them is replacing Oracle with something else, so I wouldn't go there. I'd go back to the other one, though, but it's been 9 or 10 years since I was there.