P11D - Does it need to be completed?

[css_jay99]

I have the occasional mileage for which I claim the mileage allowances. I have also had the occasional public transport travel as well as hotel accommodation that I claim for.

The question is do I still need to fill out a P11D?

I was under the assumption that since no payments have been made in excess mileage allowance, OR excess of travel & Hotels costs then there are no gains to report on


Additionally what about the P9D ?


cheers

css_jay99

[Danielsjdaccountancy]

I have the occasional mileage for which I claim the mileage allowances. I have also had the occasional public transport travel as well as hotel accommodation that I claim for.

The question is do I still need to fill out a P11D?

I was under the assumption that since no payments have been made in excess mileage allowance, OR excess of travel & Hotels costs then there are no gains to report on


Additionally what about the P9D ?


cheers

css_jay99

General rule of thumb,

If you are a director and have had a payroll then yes.

HMRC wish to be made aware of all expenses reimbursed to you the director to ensure there are no benefits being paid. Most P11D's and P11D(b)'s end up as nil.

HTH

[Nixon Williams]

If you have provided your employees (normally only yourself) with expenses or benefits, you need to report these to HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) by 6 July after the end of the tax year; this is done on the P11d form.

You also have to tell them about any class 1A national insurance that may be due if you have provided taxable benefits (company car, medical insurance etc.).

Unfortunately, the submitting of the P11d is not optional, if you have provided expenses/benefits to employees then a P11d needs to be completed (one for each employee). If the P11d is submitted late then you could be liable for a penalty.

The majority of items declared on the P11d will not give rise
to additional PAYE or NIC liabilities, however, there are certain items that will. The main ones are:

• Company Cars/Motorbikes/Vans
• Medical Insurance/Dental Insurance
• Directors Loans exceeding £5,000
• Expenses provided that do not match HMRC guidance i.e. Childcare in excess of £243 per month.

If you do have taxable benefits then a payment of Class 1A
national insurance will be due on these at a rate of 13.8% of
the benefit in kind value. This will be due to HMRC by 22nd
July 2012 and payable by your employer (normally your
company).

There is always some confusion as to whether the genuine
business expenses detailed on the P11d are taxable on the
employee or not. To clarify, provided the expenses have been
incurred “wholly and exclusively” for business purposes and
they are within all guidelines as set by HMRC (24 month rule
for example when claiming travel and related costs) then there should be no tax charge on the employee.

If you are completing a tax return (which all directors must
do) then you will need to declare the P11d items on the return.

To ensure there is no additional tax due on these P11d items you must ensure the next two points are done correctly:

1) First, the P11d items must be declared as expense
payments received from your employer (normally boxes 12
and 16 on the return) which treats the expenses as income,
2) Secondly, you should then enter the expenses in boxes 17-
20 to declare these as “wholly and exclusively” for business
use which means the expenses are allowable against income.

These two entries then cancel each other out so there is no
additional income on your return and thus no additional tax
charge.

The only case where there would be an additional tax charge
based on the P11d is if you have received taxable benefits as
above.

[Clare@InTouch]

You could apply for a dispensation for the new tax year, it can make life a lot easier if you purely have allowable expenses that you reimburse as you then don't need to declare them at all.

https://online.hmrc.gov.uk/shortform...ww.hmrc.gov.uk

[css_jay99]

Thanks guys, this is now as clear as mud!

Except I have not filled any since i incorporated in 2005

I better get this one in on time.

[Wanderer]

Some good answers there - thanks guys.

The P11D talks about "expenses reimbursed to the director/employee". So if the director takes the train to a business meeting (away from the permanent place of work, thus an allowable business travel expense), pays for it out of their own pocket and claims it back from the company, it has to go on the P11D but as it's “wholly and exclusively” for business then there is no BIK payable - correct?

But what if the director pays for the train ticket out of the company directly using the company credit card? That means it doesn't have to be declared on the director's P11D, is that right?

[Greg@CapitalCity]

I seriously hope the P11D process gets reformed soon. Its great (not!) that most P11D's that get filed give rise to no tax liability, so really its a form-filling exercise.

@css_jay99 - The P9D is for employees who earn less than £8,500. Directors, and those who earn more than £8,500 per year complete the P11D.

The P11D talks about "expenses reimbursed to the director/employee". So if the director takes the train to a business meeting (away from the permanent place of work, thus an allowable business travel expense), pays for it out of their own pocket and claims it back from the company, it has to go on the P11D but as it's “wholly and exclusively” for business then there is no BIK payable - correct?

Correct. It goes on the P11D, and then on your personal tax return the item is entered in two parts of the Employment pages so the net effect means you pay no tax on the expense reimbursement.

But what if the director pays for the train ticket out of the company directly using the company credit card? That means it doesn't have to be declared on the director's P11D, is that right?

Correct. As no reimbursement occurs to the Director, and because its an allowable business expense, no P11D implications.

[Contreras]

But what if the director pays for the train ticket out of the company directly using the company credit card? That means it doesn't have to be declared on the director's P11D, is that right?

Correct. As no reimbursement occurs to the Director, and because its an allowable business expense, no P11D implications.

I'm not entirely convinced by this but I have been offered similar advice before so would glad to be corrected!

Quote from: HM Revenue & Customs: Travel - general

Business travel: you provide, pay for or reimburse

Definitions or restrictions

You cover the costs of an employee's business travel costs in one of the following ways:

• by directly providing the transport
• by paying a supplier through which your employee has arranged transport
• by reimbursing no more than the necessary costs of business travel

In other words (my interpretation), it doesn't matter whether the train ticket is paid using the company credit card, paid directly by the end client, or paid out-of-pocket and then reimbursed - in every case it must be declared on the P11D.

Although it's a quite pointless exercise as you say.

[CheeseSlice]

But what if the director pays for the train ticket out of the company directly using the company credit card? That means it doesn't have to be declared on the director's P11D, is that right?

Correct. It goes on the P11D, and then on your personal tax return the item is entered in two parts of the Employment pages so the net effect means you pay no tax on the expense reimbursement.

I'm not entirely convinced by this but I have been offered similar advice before so would glad to be corrected!

Quote from: HM Revenue & Customs: Travel - general



In other words (my interpretation), it doesn't matter whether the train ticket is paid using the company credit card, paid directly by the end client, or paid out-of-pocket and then reimbursed - in every case it must be declared on the P11D.

Although it's a quite pointless exercise as you say.

I'm with Conteras on this. It seems this is an area that different accountants would disagree. My accountant has always said to put even those expenses paid for on the company credit card on the P11D.

[psychocandy]

OK. I might be dull but, OK, if you claim the 45p mileage thing then you have to do P11D even though BIK is nill?