Does she have a point?

[darmstadt]

You are kidding me? You are quoting some german newspapers to prove that the propaganda fuelled by these very newspapers is true?

The amount of smear campaigning and aggressive racial bullying which is going around Europe is mind blowing!

Again, just for you .... A Witness is Called - The Blackadder - BBC - YouTube

Its me on this stand.

Sorry, I'll quote some English ones and then I'll quote some Polish ones once I've got through the translation:

Cars 'too easy to steal' in Germany, says Polish ambassador - Telegraph

Crime in Germany: Car-theft epidemic at the border with Poland | The Economist

Poland Is Now Key Link in Europe's Expanding Traffic in Stolen Cars - CSMonitor.com

As I've said its gone right down and is now primarily other east European countries, its just they have to go through Poland to get to their customers

[doodab]

I suspect, based purely on observation rather than ONS stats, that a large chunk of the current wave of migration is Spaniards & Italians. So we're more likely to have the Costa del Croydon.

[darmstadt]

the poles make very good contributions to the UK. very good. very good attitude to work indeed. very good contribution to GDP - that is fact. can't be argued. however, puts stress on limited public resources. so either our goal is growth and GDP figures or GDH (happiness)?

hopes this clarifies the issue

The question to be asked then, is if they're making all these good contributions then why is there stress on public resources? Obviously someone, somewhere is not investing their contribution back into society...

[doodab]

The question to be asked then, is if they're making all these good contributions then why is there stress on public resources? Obviously someone, somewhere is not investing their contribution back into society...

My recent experience of the NHS was that there are a lot of old people from the former empire, particularly Pakistan and Bangladesh, needing long term care. In quite a few cases they didn't even speak English properly so one wonders how long they have been here.

Most EU migrants seem to be younger workers so don't really put a lot of stress on the NHS but do come with families and kids. The exception to this is the Irish, there were quite a few of them on the liver failure ward.

In my sons school the picture is different, there are a lot of European families but just as many western Europeans as eastern. That might be because I live in a fairly affluent area though.

[SueEllen]

The question to be asked then, is if they're making all these good contributions then why is there stress on public resources? Obviously someone, somewhere is not investing their contribution back into society...

The stress on public resources isn't down to just the Polish.

For example it was recognised in the 80s that the British population were getting older and would required more medical and care resources in the 21st century as people lived longer. There was an issue with house building and primary school places before 2004.

The problem is poor long term planning and ignoring statistical and other advice by political parties of all colours.

Long term planning doesn't get you elected - in fact if you look at airport expansion plans and other major projects it can stop you being elected.

[oscarose]

The question to be asked then, is if they're making all these good contributions then why is there stress on public resources? Obviously someone, somewhere is not investing their contribution back into society...

I think this is a very complex argument and no easy answers. immigration does boost the economy - this is fact. however our 'relaxed' attitude towards immigration results in strain on housing and the NHS to site a few examples. And Sue Ellen makes a very valid point re: other factors.

So, in your opinion, which is the most important, GDP or GDH?

[mos]

Sorry, I'll quote some English ones and then I'll quote some Polish ones once I've got through the translation:

Cars 'too easy to steal' in Germany, says Polish ambassador - Telegraph

Crime in Germany: Car-theft epidemic at the border with Poland | The Economist

Poland Is Now Key Link in Europe's Expanding Traffic in Stolen Cars - CSMonitor.com

As I've said its gone right down and is now primarily other east European countries, its just they have to go through Poland to get to their customers

Thank you that you are going to such a great length to prove to me once and for all that the oh so independent media are telling (independently) to everybody 10 times a day that Polish people are thieves!

Polish Newspapers are OWNED by Axel Springer !!!!! Economist has always been very Anti Polish, so was Telegraph, have a read. They will love to publish this sort of crap because people in England (OBVIOUSLY) will buy it!

German Propaganda Newspapers under German occupation
Soviet Propaganda Newspapers under Soviet occupation
and now ... Axel Springer presents ... sigh ...

It portrays Polish people in the same way Daily Mail portrays immigrants and working classes. You would not believe it until they get close to YOUR home!

[darmstadt]

Polish Newspapers are OWNED by Axel Springer !!!!!


It portrays Polish people in the same way Daily Mail portrays immigrants and working classes. You would not believe!

I believe only Fakt (largest circulation and much like the Bild or Sun) is owned by Axel Springer and Gazeta Wyborcza is like the Daily Mail. Rzeczpospolita is mainly owned by Norwegians, Super Express is Polish some others were owned by Springer but have been sold off...I occasionally go to Poland when I'm up that way to buy vodka, sausage and cigarettes

[Gittins Gal]

I think this is a very complex argument and no easy answers. immigration does boost the economy - this is fact. however our 'relaxed' attitude towards immigration results in strain on housing and the NHS to site a few examples. And Sue Ellen makes a very valid point re: other factors.

So, in your opinion, which is the most important, GDP or GDH?

Gross Domestic Happiness!

Money is overrated...

[oscarose]

Gross Domestic Happiness!

Money is overrated...

Agreed!!

Tell that to a politician