Cryptocurrency

[Jog On]

I see nothing official in that article - because it's SA submission day for many and a few have made Crypto coin this year, Rory Cellan-Jones is re-linking to the 2014 HMRC guidelines and fleshing it out with his own guesses/hunches.

This - it's a nothing burger:



I'd still be interested to learn where the lines are drawn between investing and highly speculative gambling are. Is it a number of trades? Something else?

I suspect it is something along the lines of "If you made a profit it's taxable, if you made a loss it's gambling".

[TheGreenBastard]

This - it's a nothing burger:



I'd still be interested to learn where the lines are drawn between investing and highly speculative gambling are. Is it a number of trades? Something else?

I suspect it is something along the lines of "If you made a profit it's taxable, if you made a loss it's gambling".

In Germany frequency of trades actually can qualify you as a trader; thus gains are taxed even if a crypto is held for 1 year.

In the UK invariably crypto is CGT; regardless of the wishful thinking on this thread.

[clearedforlanding]

Not that I advocate tax evasion, but this is going to be VERY difficult to enforce.

Hypothetically, what would happen if you started to buy everything in BTC and didn't exchange for FIAT or another coin?

[TheGreenBastard]

Not that I advocate tax evasion, but this is going to be VERY difficult to enforce.

Hypothetically, what would happen if you started to buy everything in BTC and didn't exchange for FIAT or another coin?

Simple; to audit in the event of investigation HMRC would just look at the purchase costs; that would be your sale price.

[Jog On]

In Germany frequency of trades actually can qualify you as a trader; thus gains are taxed even if a crypto is held for 1 year.

In the UK invariably crypto is CGT; regardless of the wishful thinking on this thread.

Do you know something we don't? Also AFAIK to qualify as a trader you need to derive most/all of your income from trading. The BBC article even points that out:

But in recent weeks there is some evidence that a few people are making trading in crypto-currencies a full-time job, in which case they are likely to be liable for income tax on their earnings.

I'll ask my accountant closer to the time and be as proactive as I can.

[mattfx]

Baring in mind all the issues with retrospection with the schemes, I think we all need to be very careful here. No reason Hector couldn't come along in 2 years time and declare that any crypto earnings since the year 2010 need to be declared and taxed in a format they have since deemed appropriate.

[Jog On]

Baring in mind all the issues with retrospection with the schemes, I think we all need to be very careful here. No reason Hector couldn't come along in 2 years time and declare that any crypto earnings since the year 2010 need to be declared and taxed in a format they have since deemed appropriate.

We'll all be n the super rich club by then so they'll leave us alone.

[SunnyInHades]

crypto earnings since the year 2010

Very difficult to quantify that. What's crypto ? No rules or regulations.
Why not invest in my HMRCTulipCoin coin below ?

WhitePaper: HMRCTulipCoin is a revolutionary new coin using the latest blockchain technology to manage and output lines of text called 'cryptolines'.
It will only exist in the CUK Cryptocurrency forum.
Send 0.5BTC along with i) your email address and ii) your BTC address to <snip> and join the HMRCTulipCoin community at any time.
HMRCTulipCoin will not be listed on any exchange.
Updates to the HMRCTulipCoin may be added to the CUK Cryptocurrency forum as new posts or updates to old posts at random times. Random BTC may be sent back to HMRCTulip community members at random times. You may not get back the full amount invested. Any loses can of course be offset against tax.
To use the coin copy'n' paste into the yellow box at https://golang.org

package main

import (
"bytes"
"crypto/sha256"
"strconv"
"time"
)

import (
"fmt"
)

type Block struct {
Timestamp int64
Data []byte
PrevBlockHash []byte
Hash []byte
}

type Blockchain struct {
blocks []*Block
}

func (b *Block) SetHash() {
timestamp := []byte(strconv.FormatInt(b.Timestamp, 10))
headers := bytes.Join([][]byte{b.PrevBlockHash, b.Data, timestamp}, []byte{})
hash := sha256.Sum256(headers)
b.Hash = hash[:]
}

func NewBlock(data string, prevBlockHash []byte) *Block {
block := &Block{time.Now().Unix(), []byte(data), prevBlockHash, []byte{}}
block.SetHash()
return block
}

func NewGenesisBlock() *Block {
return NewBlock("Genesis Block", []byte{})
}

func (bc *Blockchain) AddBlock(data string) {
prevBlock := bc.blocks[len(bc.blocks)-1]
newBlock := NewBlock(data, prevBlock.Hash)
bc.blocks = append(bc.blocks, newBlock)
}

func NewBlockchain() *Blockchain {
return &Blockchain{[]*Block{NewGenesisBlock()}}
}

func main() {
bc := NewBlockchain()
bc.AddBlock("HMRCTulipCoin woz ere")
bc.AddBlock("HMRCTulipCoin woz ere again")
for _, block := range bc.blocks {
fmt.Printf("Prev. hash: %x\n", block.PrevBlockHash)
fmt.Printf("Data: %s\n", block.Data)
fmt.Printf("Hash: %x\n", block.Hash)
fmt.Println()
}
}

[VirtualMonkey]

Very difficult to quantify that. What's crypto ? No rules or regulations.
Why not invest in my HMRCTulipCoin coin below ?

WhitePaper: HMRCTulipCoin is a revolutionary new coin using the latest blockchain technology to manage and output lines of text called 'cryptolines'.
It will only exist in the CUK Cryptocurrency forum.
Send 0.5BTC along with i) your email address and ii) your BTC address to <snip> and join the HMRCTulipCoin community at any time.
HMRCTulipCoin will not be listed on any exchange.
Updates to the HMRCTulipCoin may be added to the CUK Cryptocurrency forum as new posts or updates to old posts at random times. Random BTC may be sent back to HMRCTulip community members at random times. You may not get back the full amount invested. Any loses can of course be offset against tax.
To use the coin copy'n' paste into the yellow box at https://golang.org

package main

import (
"bytes"
"crypto/sha256"
"strconv"
"time"
)

import (
"fmt"
)

type Block struct {
Timestamp int64
Data []byte
PrevBlockHash []byte
Hash []byte
}

type Blockchain struct {
blocks []*Block
}

func (b *Block) SetHash() {
timestamp := []byte(strconv.FormatInt(b.Timestamp, 10))
headers := bytes.Join([][]byte{b.PrevBlockHash, b.Data, timestamp}, []byte{})
hash := sha256.Sum256(headers)
b.Hash = hash[:]
}

func NewBlock(data string, prevBlockHash []byte) *Block {
block := &Block{time.Now().Unix(), []byte(data), prevBlockHash, []byte{}}
block.SetHash()
return block
}

func NewGenesisBlock() *Block {
return NewBlock("Genesis Block", []byte{})
}

func (bc *Blockchain) AddBlock(data string) {
prevBlock := bc.blocks[len(bc.blocks)-1]
newBlock := NewBlock(data, prevBlock.Hash)
bc.blocks = append(bc.blocks, newBlock)
}

func NewBlockchain() *Blockchain {
return &Blockchain{[]*Block{NewGenesisBlock()}}
}

func main() {
bc := NewBlockchain()
bc.AddBlock("HMRCTulipCoin woz ere")
bc.AddBlock("HMRCTulipCoin woz ere again")
for _, block := range bc.blocks {
fmt.Printf("Prev. hash: %x\n", block.PrevBlockHash)
fmt.Printf("Data: %s\n", block.Data)
fmt.Printf("Hash: %x\n", block.Hash)
fmt.Println()
}
}

Looks good to me...am I limited to the 0.5BTC you need me to send or can I send more

[mattfx]

Very difficult to quantify that. What's crypto ? No rules or regulations.

My point is as I understand it, crypto is currently a "way around" getting CGT on investment, because even though it's more akin to gambling right now, it's still an investment if we're being honest. I don't see any of you going to casino's and putting hundreds if not thousands of pounds down on a card table. Maybe you are but if you're making money at it you certainly aren't posting about it!

The loan schemes of years gone by were a way of getting around tax. They were (as I understand it) dodgy but legitimate in that they exploited loopholes. HMRC retrospectively closed said loopholes and then applied the rules in retrospect. Honestly, I would bet a fairly significant amount that they'll do the same to crypto currencies. But then again, they'd probably tax me on that when I won, too.