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[malvolio]

Israel want things to change? They want enduring and lasting peace? Correct?
The enemies don't want things to change? They'll never stop hating and wanting to eliminate jews/zionists; it's almost like it's part of their DNA? Correct?

But you say it's not down to Israel, and yet it's only them that want things to change. Well, history has shown that nothing they've done over many decades has brought about change. And, as the saying goes, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results...

Now, I would be horrified but if they concluded that the old solution was scorched earth (nuke the lot of 'em) then at least they'd be doing something different.

Well if you refuse to apply any kind of critical thinking to your answers, and stick to a biased and inaccurate view of the harsh reality of the situation in the Middle East, then there is no point in arguing.

Just to be clear, my view, which is not unique, is that Israel is under threat from a range of covert and overt enemies who have a common purpose, to destroy Israel and return the land to a largely fictitious historical Palestinian homeland by any means possible.

Yours appears to be that Israel is the cause and they are therefore not entitled to protect their population from continuous random, indiscriminate attacks, mainly by very focussed attacks against their attackers.

The trigger for the current conflict was October 7th. Prior to that, Israel and several Arab nations were largely on the road to a sensible resolution for the region and had been supporting Palestinians quite evenly for many years despite the continual predations of assorted terrorist groups.

Neither Israel nor the other Arab nations are free of blame here, and both sides have made serious mistakes, but Israel are not and never were the instigators of the conflict.

BTW, "Zionists" are Jews, not all Jews are Zionists. I assume you know the difference. And why.

[sadkingbilly]

Ah got it. You think that we don't allow different points of view, despite all the evidence - like the fact that you get to post. But you'd rather feel the victim of a conspiracy to suppress your right to speech. What you fail to understand is that the right to free speech includes everyone else's right to pour derision on your deranged, drooling outpourings.

Vetran overstepped the mark. He does it rarely. I know it doesn't fit with your world view, but with regards to this discussion, I'm largely with Vetran. I'm not happy that kids died, but the fact that so few innocents died in this attack is commendable. Hezbollah and Hamas aren't held to the same standards as Israel - they don't give a flying **** if innocents, event their own die - which at least is the worst reason why they try to minimise what the US coined as "Collateral Damage".

Oh also, btw, I'm not Catholic. So your whine about Communion Wine just shows your prejudices.

in your opinion.
my arse, it's constant.
and, oh, look who's first with the toady likes and thanks.
quelle surprise.

[woody1]

Well if you refuse to apply any kind of critical thinking to your answers, and stick to a biased and inaccurate view of the harsh reality of the situation in the Middle East, then there is no point in arguing.

Well if you refuse to read what I actually wrote...

Where did I even imply Israel was the cause?

Of course they're entitled to defend themselves but, if things carry on as they are, they'll still be repelling attacks in 50 years time. Their attackers don't care if this carries on ad infinitum; it's like a calling to them.

To be honest, I don't know why I even care. At the end of the day, it's just people doing what people do. Hating and killing. Over what? A load of old bollox.

[vetran]

in your opinion.
my arse, it's constant.
and, oh, look who's first with the toady likes and thanks.
quelle surprise.

Well that explains the quality of your posts.

[vetran]

Well if you refuse to read what I actually wrote...

Where did I even imply Israel was the cause?

Of course they're entitled to defend themselves but, if things carry on as they are, they'll still be repelling attacks in 50 years time. Their attackers don't care if this carries on ad infinitum; it's like a calling to them.

To be honest, I don't know why I even care. At the end of the day, it's just people doing what people do. Hating and killing. Over what? A load of old bollox.

Answer 2 questions

A, What happens if Hamas, Hezbollah etc put down their weapons and propose peace?

B. What happens if Israel put down their weapons and propose peace (as they did before 7th October in Gaza)?

[malvolio]

Well if you refuse to read what I actually wrote...

Where did I even imply Israel was the cause?

Of course they're entitled to defend themselves but, if things carry on as they are, they'll still be repelling attacks in 50 years time. Their attackers don't care if this carries on ad infinitum; it's like a calling to them.

To be honest, I don't know why I even care. At the end of the day, it's just people doing what people do. Hating and killing. Over what? A load of old bollox.

No, I did read what you said. What you missed out is that Israel was already a long way into agreeing a "truce" (for want of a better word) with Saudi Arabia and other key states across the Middle East, which has now ground to a halt. In other words, Israel was already the driver for change to bring peace across the region and isolating Iran and its fanatic proxy groups.

[malvolio]

Answer 2 questions

A, What happens if Hamas, Hezbollah etc put down their weapons and propose peace?

B. What happens if Israel put down their weapons and propose peace (as they did before 7th October in Gaza)?

1. Israel have said they will cease hostilities, provided the hostages or their bodies are returned

2. Israel have proposed a resolution, several times. Each time Hamas has refused to agree or imposed impossible conditions on agreement.

However, neither of your two fantasy situations is going to arise. The likely outcome for Hamas is their destruction by elimination of their entire leadership (although they will reincarnate elsewhere no doubt). Hezbollah are in effect an arm of the Iranian military, they will not go away.

What you and the other apologists should be asking is how do we persuade Iran to stop kicking the hornet's nest.

[vetran]

Ah, you've read John Buchan's novels.

Btw. I was the one who proposed your ban. The reason for it was clear. Nothing was taken out of context.

no just the full record of the meeting plus multiple historical confirmation he was there

https://www.timesofisrael.com/full-o...aid-to-hitler/

Yes I probably over stepped with Khan the man really annoys me. He has done little for London your chances of getting killed are way higher now.

I was responding to Cojak's comments as she was the one who banned me.

[vetran]

1. Israel have said they will cease hostilities, provided the hostages or their bodies are returned

2. Israel have proposed a resolution, several times. Each time Hamas has refused to agree or imposed impossible conditions on agreement.

However, neither of your two fantasy situations is going to arise. The likely outcome for Hamas is their destruction by elimination of their entire leadership (although they will reincarnate elsewhere no doubt). Hezbollah are in effect an arm of the Iranian military, they will not go away.

What you and the other apologists should be asking is how do we persuade Iran to stop kicking the hornet's nest.

Actually from Ben Shapiro to emphasise the difference between Israel & its enemies.

1. If Israel's enemies laid down their weapons and proposed peace the facts show Israel would be at the table after calling a cease fire.

2. If Israel laid down their weapons the state of Israel would be exterminated and the nutters would move on to the rest of the world as they told the Nazis and many more.

All those hugging terrorists are insane.

[vetran]

Israel want things to change? They want enduring and lasting peace? Correct?
The enemies don't want things to change? They'll never stop hating and wanting to eliminate jews/zionists; it's almost like it's part of their DNA? Correct?

But you say it's not down to Israel, and yet it's only them that want things to change. Well, history has shown that nothing they've done over many decades has brought about change. And, as the saying goes, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results...

Now, I would be horrified but if they concluded that the old solution was scorched earth (nuke the lot of 'em) then at least they'd be doing something different.

They actually demonstrably taking the third option that they invented, cutting out the cancer surgically in the hope the area will recover. They have had an incredibly low civilian casualty rate compared to the larger western powers USA in similar circumstances its 9 dead civilians for one dead combatant. Israel is on about 2 dead civilians for one combatant (on Hamas's figures).

What we should do is support them and apply pressure to Iran & Lebanon (maybe a little regime change American style) Supporting the terrorists is no help and we should make it clear we don't want Hamas etc just as we do to Putin.