Reply to: I'm surprised we haven't had this yet

[doodab]

Most barristers do not have PAs or legal assistants who can prep for trial.

Exactly. Preparation isn't making sandwiches for someone else to sell, a barrister needs to personally digest perhaps hundreds or thousands of pages of documents and know the case well enough to represent you.

[Ticktock]

And what are the assistants paid for if not to do the preparation for you?

The clerks are paid for clerical work, manning phones, chasing payments, booking appointments, etc. They may have some legal training, but are not lawyers.
Pupils are paid **** all and are there to learn - their input on cases is likely to be minimal, if any.

Most barristers do not have PAs or legal assistants who can prep for trial.

[Smartie]

2 or 3 at most I'd estimate. Of course there are legal secretaries and assistants and premises and so forth to be paid for as well. But even so it's not a bad whack.

And what are the assistants paid for if not to do the preparation for you?

[vetran]

That's less than some of us bill for a day though, and you need to remember they also have to prepare for it, and they don't spend every morning in court.

OTOH my missus engaged one of the top barristers in a particular specialist area as part of a group and he cost them £6k for the day, so the top guys are definitely raking it in.

bit like rich contractors then, maybe?

[doodab]

Well the amount of training and then bottom-rung being-someone's-bitch-ing you have to do, so it should be.

Indeed. It takes the best part of a career to get to this chaps level.

[d000hg]

2 or 3 at most I'd estimate. Of course there are legal secretaries and assistants and premises and so forth to be paid for as well. But even so it's not a bad whack.

Well the amount of training and then bottom-rung being-someone's-bitch-ing you have to do, so it should be.

[doodab]

Yep but that £6k is for the public facing work. How many days of preparation were spent for that day...

2 or 3 at most I'd estimate. Of course there are legal secretaries and assistants and premises and so forth to be paid for as well. But even so it's not a bad whack.

[eek]

That's less than some of us bill for a day though, and you need to remember they also have to prepare for it, and they don't spend every morning in court.

OTOH my missus engaged one of the top barristers in a particular specialist area as part of a group and he cost them £6k for the day, so the top guys are definitely raking it in.

Yep but that £6k is for the public facing work. How many days of preparation were spent for that day...

[doodab]

And the tax deduction of expenses etc. has no effect?

My limited experience has been the fees they charge are quite exceptional even in basically straightforward cases. £500 for a morning in court.

That's less than some of us bill for a day though, and you need to remember they also have to prepare for it, and they don't spend every morning in court.

OTOH my missus engaged one of the top barristers in a particular specialist area as part of a group and he cost them £6k for the day, so the top guys are definitely raking it in.

[vetran]

Although there are a tiny number of barristers earning huge sums, most earn very little given the amount of work they have to put in to achieving that position: I believe most are under the £50,000 mark.

And bear in mind that the government quotes gross figures. Even if a barrister "earns", say, £250,000 a year, that's not their take-home, nor even their gross salary: they'll be a member of a chambers, and have to contribute to the costs of running that business: premises, staff, other overheads. A barrister is essentially a partner in a business, and the fees they command are the income of that business, not their personal income.

And the tax deduction of expenses etc. has no effect?

My limited experience has been the fees they charge are quite exceptional even in basically straightforward cases. £500 for a morning in court.

[doodab]

As a fairly lowly paid contractor (I could get more but go for entertainment and long term survival rather than cash) I earn more than that...

Exactly. £100k ex VAT billed by an IT contractor with minimal overheads is a lot more than £100k inc vat with a sizeable cost of doing business.

[eek]

what was the VAT threshold again?

It's billed by the chamber so is charged regardless of what the barrister bills.

[NickFitz]

Although there are a tiny number of barristers earning huge sums, most earn very little given the amount of work they have to put in to achieving that position: I believe most are under the £50,000 mark.

And bear in mind that the government quotes gross figures. Even if a barrister "earns", say, £250,000 a year, that's not their take-home, nor even their gross salary. They'll be a member of a chambers, and have to contribute to the costs of running that business: premises, staff, other overheads. A barrister is essentially a partner in a business, and the fees they command are the income of that business, not their personal income.

[vetran]

The Criminal Bar Association (CBA) disputes the claim, saying barristers actually earn an average of £37,000 .

On Tuesday, Sir Andrew - who leads the body which monitors the integrity of official statistics - wrote to Legal Aid minister Shailesh Vara and courts saying the report did not specify how the government figure was reached.

He said the sum was "potentially misleading" as it was not made clear barristers would have to pay costs and tax out of this.

Using a different way of calculating the figures would have produced a lower average, he added.

"Information about items included or excluded from the estimates of fee income - for example, VAT and disbursements - is also presented in the notes but the report makes no attempt to quantify the impact of the treatment of these items.

what was the VAT threshold again?

[doodab]

The question is how much do they really earn doing legal aid work? When they had their strike, there were some on the TV claiming it was less than minimum wage, and the government were saying many earned more than £100K. It's one of those stories where as a member of the public it's impossible to know where you stand as you don't have any way of knowing what the facts actually are.

I think they might bill £100k but the reality is that quite a bit of that is disbursments, expenses and VAT. I do know a qualified barrister and he does all right although he actually works as a political lobbyist, which might say something about what he could earn as a barrister.