Reply to: Public sector strike makes headlines at the Beeb. World plus dog unconcerned

[Alf W]

How deeply patronising of you to cite "occasional" anecdotes of performance as if they are representative of the public sector as a whole. What a lie people like you create. How is it people like you exploit the excellence of the few to justify the existence of the many? Your left wing agenda twists and turns the reality of what actually goes on in order to feed your prejudices and insecurities which in this case are focussed against people who are basically more successful than you.


So you now tell me what percentage of public service workers commit themselves to these levels of devotion and performance. Are You telling me that in the National Audit office in Victoria that all 2000 of the workers who arrive in their office at 10.00 am and leave to go home at 4.00 pm with their guaranteed pensions are "saving lives, putting their "necks on the line" at great personal sacrifice and working their arses off and therefore somehow deserve special treatment?????

No! just because a tiny minority are committed and perform beyond the levels asked of them you seem to think that we therefore owe the rest of them a living.

The anecdotal examples of excellence that you describe should be standard levels of performance amongst ALL public sector workers

It's equally easy to tar all Public Sector workers as 'lazy workshy slackers'.

You ought to ask yourself who the majority of people would rescue from a fire if they had to. Paramedic or Telesales Recruitment Consultant?. In fact, you might even ask yourself who people would throw back in.

Sorry if you think I'm bullying you again.

[SupremeSpod]

I think that a lot of the waste and poor feeling is down to the fact that sucessive governments of whichever flavour constantly introduce reforms, which break more than They fix, without consultation from the experts who do the job who passionately care, whilst increasing the administrative burden. Then the next govt comes in, blames the administrative burden, and introduces reforms which create a new admin burden just as everyone adapted to the last one, repeat until totally demoralised.

o

Numerous Governments have tried to reform the public sector and ensure that we get value for money from the taxes we pay.

All have failed. The public sector is too big, unwieldy and inefficient. It needs someone with a very large axe!

With regards to Policing in the UK, we get the Police Force we deserve.

[wim121]

Nobody held a gun to their head and forced them to do it. It was a job that they chose to apply for fully knowing what the job enttitles. If they are too much of a pussy to police the streets they should go and apply to the local council as outreach officer or something. Point is, the public sector workers are just too unskilled to actually get into private sector, or else they would have dumped their job ages ago instead of going on strikes.

One of the rare occasions I find myself agreeing completely with you.

Everyone knows how people feel about the police for example. So to then join up to the force and then cry and lose your temper when someone calls you a pig is just being an ultimate pussy as you said. God forbid they could learn another skill instead of beating up people like overgrown bullies. Police officers dont join to help communities or patrol the streets, they join because they were bullied themselves at a young age and now want to legally bully other people, without getting sparked out by picking a fight with the wrong person.

Then they wonder why society in general has so little respect for them and why generations have grown up having little respect for law and order littering our streets with chavs? I appreciate other factors like paperwork and not being able to clip someones ear makes it harder nowadays for officers, but you earn respect. You earn respect as an officer by not beating an overwhelmed and already subdued detainee, you earn respect by following the law yourself instead of officers who think it is acceptable to flout the law.

They really are scum. The only people lower than them are traffic wardens perhaps.

[wim121]

LOL - How incentivised to work would you be at 25k or less?

seriously, think about what you are saying.

Christ almighty, some of these comments flabbergast me..

lefty liberals are we , for wanting to reward those that put their lives and necks on the line.

My best mate is a paramedic, he gets attacked every single weekend - EVERY SINGLE one - he gets paid less than you earn in a day in a week.

All these people want is to know that they'll be looked after by the state and the taxpayer in return for looking after us all this time.

Some people would like to see this all privatised and we'll end up living in a bloody hell hole. Businesses dont give 10 hoots about efficiency, they care about profit, and when it comes to things that are supposed to be available to the public FREE AT POINT OF USE, you have a hard time making a profit...

Thats fine for you that represent a mere 10% of the populace, you can buy your own private healthcare / police etc can't you - whats the rest of the populace supposed to do, live like Escape from New York or something...

I'm going before I bust a nerd rage blood vessel. Valium 12 oclock please.

Remember, most of the UK and occupations arent highly skilled like higher IT jobs (such as programming or developing), or trades such as mechanics, carpenters, electricians, plumbers and builders. Most people are on under £25k.

Most people working in ordinary offices, normal IT support roles, physical jobs, etc etc, are all on far lower pay than public sector workers. Around these parts, IT technician/engineer permanent roles range from £12k-£20K, the ones higher paid than that are specialised roles that are usually contracted out and are in the minority.

However in the same area, police jobs start at £16k, firefighters start at £18k, etc etc. They are very well paid and should be damn thankful for what they get, as that wage outside of major cities and home counties, will afford you a comfortable lifestyle.

I would agree with you on paramedic violence. They are often quite nice unlike modern nurses and dont deserve the stick they get. However they must accept they are entering hostile situations, where people quite rightly have issues with the police, so any blue flashing lights, anyone standing beside a police officer, gets similar treatment.

However I disagree with you on public sector workers. Many people in the private sector get paid less and have far worse conditions of employment than the public sector. We don't all get up and strike whenever we feel hard done by, because we know we would be replaced.

The public sector workers need to grow up and fast. To teach them a lesson, all of the strikers should lose their jobs and be replaced by people who would love those wages.

Thousands in public sector strike



LIVE Live: Public sector strike

Wow. It's all action there! zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

P.S. Has anyone noticed?

Can't say I did, what a non event.

Nope. I'm more concerned about keeping a toilet within a 5 second sprinting distance right now!

Do you need some extra strength loperamide? I have tonnes of them.

[fullyautomatix]

Yeah sure, I tell you what - why dont you go out and police in one of our cities for less than 23k a year..... Would you wear a stab jacket for less than that?

Or how about working in the prison service at your pay increase LESS than inflation ...

Greedy yeah... thats exactly what I think when people take socially responsible jobs for that money... oh and us contractors at daily rates bigger than their weekly, we're not greedy at all are we..

Seriously, that grinds my gears BIG TIME.

Nobody held a gun to their head and forced them to do it. It was a job that they chose to apply for fully knowing what the job enttitles. If they are too much of a pussy to police the streets they should go and apply to the local council as outreach officer or something. Point is, the public sector workers are just too unskilled to actually get into private sector, or else they would have dumped their job ages ago instead of going on strikes.

[DodgyAgent]

I think that a lot of the waste and poor feeling is down to the fact that sucessive governments of whichever flavour constantly introduce reforms, which break more than They fix, without consultation from the experts who do the job who passionately care, whilst increasing the administrative burden. Then the next govt comes in, blames the administrative burden, and introduces reforms which create a new admin burden just as everyone adapted to the last one, repeat until totally demoralised.

o

A sensible analysis of the public sector

[DodgyAgent]

LOL - How incentivised to work would you be at 25k or less?


seriously, think about what you are saying.

Christ almighty, some of these comments flabbergast me..

lefty liberals are we , for wanting to reward those that put their lives and necks on the line.

My best mate is a paramedic, he gets attacked every single weekend - EVERY SINGLE one - he gets paid less than you earn in a day in a week.

All these people want is to know that they'll be looked after by the state and the taxpayer in return for looking after us all this time.

Some people would like to see this all privatised and we'll end up living in a bloody hell hole. Businesses dont give 10 hoots about efficiency, they care about profit, and when it comes to things that are supposed to be available to the public FREE AT POINT OF USE, you have a hard time making a profit...

Thats fine for you that represent a mere 10% of the populace, you can buy your own private healthcare / police etc can't you - whats the rest of the populace supposed to do, live like Escape from New York or something...


I'm going before I bust a nerd rage blood vessel. Valium 12 oclock please.

How deeply patronising of you to cite "occasional" anecdotes of performance as if they are representative of the public sector as a whole. What a lie people like you create. How is it people like you exploit the excellence of the few to justify the existence of the many? Your left wing agenda twists and turns the reality of what actually goes on in order to feed your prejudices and insecurities which in this case are focussed against people who are basically more successful than you.


So you now tell me what percentage of public service workers commit themselves to these levels of devotion and performance. Are You telling me that in the National Audit office in Victoria that all 2000 of the workers who arrive in their office at 10.00 am and leave to go home at 4.00 pm with their guaranteed pensions are "saving lives, putting their "necks on the line" at great personal sacrifice and working their arses off and therefore somehow deserve special treatment?????

No! just because a tiny minority are committed and perform beyond the levels asked of them you seem to think that we therefore owe the rest of them a living.

The anecdotal examples of excellence that you describe should be standard levels of performance amongst ALL public sector workers

[Doggy Styles]

I don't care whether they do bugger all or not. That's another argument.

I do care that, because of the economic changes over the past 15 years, I will have to work longer to pay not only for my retirement, but to save them having to work longer as well. They can go and get f***ed.

[Scoobos]

I think that a lot of the waste and poor feeling is down to the fact that sucessive governments of whichever flavour constantly introduce reforms, which break more than They fix, without consultation from the experts who do the job who passionately care, whilst increasing the administrative burden. Then the next govt comes in, blames the administrative burden, and introduces reforms which create a new admin burden just as everyone adapted to the last one, repeat until totally demoralised.

o

[Waldorf]

There is no doubt that many public sector workers do valuable work and most people are thankful for that and the work that they do.

However, there are many, many, that do bugger all - some of this is their fault in that they are lazy sods, but it is also the fault of government in that we have waste everywhere we look, there are so many different departments, the state can and must stop doing so much and reduce its interference in people's lives.

The state certainly needs to reduce red tape and other burdens on enterprise, it is the private sector that will drive us out of the mess we are in.

We would all love to give pay rises to nurses etc but the simple fact is that we cannot afford to, and this extends to the pension provision we are liable for.

The problem with Labour (and Gordon Brown particularly fond of this), is that they never want to say NO, they keep throwing money about they they do not have and are happy to pass this debit down the generations, this is criminal but it looks like many voters have forgotten about reality and fall for the crap that Milliband and Balls talk about.

[Scoobos]

do not have commercial pressures put on them..

Ok last one, but WTF.....

Commerical pressures --- what?? you mean having to have that spreadsheet done, or that deal closed by Friday?

How about trying to contain a riot in a prison, save a young girls life whos in trauma after a car accident, or put the young boys mind together whos been used as a plaything by an adult male? (Prison officer, trauma nurse, social worker - all less than 23k to start, with a new and unimproved pension scheme)..

oh sure, commercial pressures totally put those responsibilities into shade dont they?

I mean when I have to get that virtualised environment up and running in a week, I think, phew I wish I was Al in his ambulance, in Manchester tonight - that was really rough.

[Scoobos]

That is what they are supposed to do but even you could not argue that these people are managed or incentivised to work as efficiently as they should,

LOL - How incentivised to work would you be at 25k or less?


seriously, think about what you are saying.

Christ almighty, some of these comments flabbergast me..

lefty liberals are we , for wanting to reward those that put their lives and necks on the line.

My best mate is a paramedic, he gets attacked every single weekend - EVERY SINGLE one - he gets paid less than you earn in a day in a week.

All these people want is to know that they'll be looked after by the state and the taxpayer in return for looking after us all this time.

Some people would like to see this all privatised and we'll end up living in a bloody hell hole. Businesses dont give 10 hoots about efficiency, they care about profit, and when it comes to things that are supposed to be available to the public FREE AT POINT OF USE, you have a hard time making a profit...

Thats fine for you that represent a mere 10% of the populace, you can buy your own private healthcare / police etc can't you - whats the rest of the populace supposed to do, live like Escape from New York or something...


I'm going before I bust a nerd rage blood vessel. Valium 12 oclock please.

[Scoobos]

i wish they wouldnt keep lying and saying theyre all on a pay freeze, they are on a pay escalator their rate goes up to the next level every year no matter what, they are all still getting 5% + pay rises pa just not getting a rise to the overall pay escalator , they are still raking it in - ungrateful greedy lazy f uckers

Yeah sure, I tell you what - why dont you go out and police in one of our cities for less than 23k a year..... Would you wear a stab jacket for less than that?

Or how about working in the prison service at your pay increase LESS than inflation ...

Greedy yeah... thats exactly what I think when people take socially responsible jobs for that money... oh and us contractors at daily rates bigger than their weekly, we're not greedy at all are we..

Seriously, that grinds my gears BIG TIME.

[DodgyAgent]

Nope and I made that very point in an earlier posting.

However, you obviously hold these people in some sort of contempt as beneath the lofty Private Sector workers. Many of these people add considerable value to society and they have as much, if not more, right to their contractual rewards as certain bankers claiming bonuses despite tipping the global economy into recession.

I may indeed talk as if I have contempt for these workers and indeed I do for many of them but my real point is that these people are being let off the hook because the lefties are diverting the blame to the wealth creators for failing to keep the troughs full. It is true that bankers have made serious mistakes and so has the previous government. The left blames the bankers without calling upon those who benefit from their taxes to do their jobs properly. Instead we see rafts and rafts of employment protection cossetting public sector workers without making them more accountable for what they do.

We have a public sector that sort of works when what we should have is a public sector that works with the care devotion and dedication that one would expect from workers in non commercial/profit led organisations that do not have commercial pressures put on them. We also owe it to the workers themselves to demand such a commitment instead of treating them in the condescending manner that the left do - "Oh they do a fantastic job poor souls lets not criticise them - oh do let them take more days off than the rest of us"

So by not challenging these workers and by not subjecting them to the same demands of private sector workers we have inadvertently created a large part of the workforce driven by a sense of entitlement not capable of getting any sort of job in a privately run organisation.

Without doubt there are many incidents and examples of excellence throughout the public services but the truth is that from the very top down they are generally sh*T

Until we change our attitude by demanding more from our tax (most of the left see tax as a means of punishing rich people - of which you as a contractor are one) and treating the public sector as a welfare repository for harmless people who need state handouts then lack of social mobility, crime and illiteracy will remain forever.

[hyperD]

you in Germany ?

france, belgium ?

Squitsville, deepest Surrey.