Reply to: Charles Clark Hands Victory To Terrorists

[hattra]

Bader-Meinhof

The Bader-Meinhof gang had the same idea in the seventies - they thought that the state would become so oppressive that the "People" would eventually rise up and overthrow the state and create the perfect anarchist society.

I see that plan worked well

I expect this lot to have exactly the same degree of success

Though of course the difference is that the German Government is very wary of being seen as fascist, whereas our lot have wet-dreams about it

[Lucifer Box]

Yes, that would be highly convenient and I have no doubt that the police and MI5 have already been briefed that that is the required conclusion.

[Not So Wise]

Either that or just asylum seekers based over there and under watch of the French autoritys who neglected to tell the british would be just perfect for Blair as would mean security services over here did not fail, little goverment could have done to prevent it and it's all the frenchies falute.

That would definatly be best outcome he could hope for

[Lucifer Box]

Algerians with French passports, that sort of thing?

[Not So Wise]

If it turns out one or more of the bombers were failed asylum seekers that will, of course, be a political disaster for the government.

Would find it more ironic if they were successful asylum seekers who had been in the country for a few years living off state benefits

Hard to say which gov would prefure though, if asylum seekers they get blame for their policys
If native muslims then they can kiss goodbye to any curtailing of civil rights while getting a whole load of sectarian violence on the streets

Probably prefure them to be "tourists", especially french ones

[WageSlave]

I agree, Lucifer.

[Lucifer Box]

Give the media attention around rapists, murderers and assorted robbers who turn out to be asylum seekers/immigrants, would adding suicide bombing to that list really change government policy?
After all, weren't there a few immigrants amongst the 'British' group released from G.Bay?

I'm not saying it would change government policy, Slave, but if we were closer to a general election than we are, there would be significant and, possibly, result changing, capital be made from any opposition on an anti-asylum seeker ticket if the government did not change its policy. As we are four years from an election that is not a likely result as it will not produce a "vote of no confidence" in NL, but it will be a political bombshell for a few weeks.

[WageSlave]

Give the media attention around rapists, murderers and assorted robbers who turn out to be asylum seekers/immigrants, would adding suicide bombing to that list really change government policy?
After all, weren't there a few immigrants amongst the 'British' group released from G.Bay?

[Lucifer Box]

Don't be silly LB that's not what I meant.

John Galt is my wife and I claim my crisp fiver.

If it turns out one or more of the bombers were failed asylum seekers that will, of course, be a political disaster for the government. I might even go so far as to say that if one or more of them were failed asylum seekers we will never get to hear about it and that information will be conveniently lost.

[Not So Wise]

isnt that what the Home office is already supposed to do - or are we going to see the creation of a nother waste of space government department......

Actually thats what the FBI (interior) and CIA (exterior) did before HS was created. But after 9/11 many in both these organisation and other politicians objected to changes in their roles and more importantly the changes to their powers as they viewed these increased powers as "to much"

So HS was created,an entirely politically controled and motivated organisation with mind staggering autority and powers and very little accountability.

It's creation is something the common american is slowing but surely learning to regret and it's only going to get worse.

Hoover would have probably murdered his mother to have had something like HS under his control rather than the FBI

I doubt Blair could get away with creating such a monster over here as there will be no where near the panic and shock that was in USA after 9/11 (as we have had terrorism for decades on these shores) but i can see him trying to get even less restrictions for existing organisations.

[John Galt]

Don't be silly LB that's not what I meant. I was refering to the do-gooders who think it is unreasonable to know where asylum seekers are before you let them stay for good. All for freedom LB - freedom of speach was great, not sure what happened to it but there you are

[allanh1]

SS...woops mean Homeland security



isnt that what the Home office is already supposed to do - or are we going to see the creation of a nother waste of space government department......

[Lucifer Box]

Well let's face it, if they hadn't been so free and easy about civil liberties for all and sundry they wouldn't have to curtail them now. As for Mr Clarke - he has just said what the rest of us knew yonks ago

Oh right, so it's really the fault of all those who fought for our civil liberties over the preceeding few centuries? If they hadn't bothered and we lived in the modern equivalent of a feudal society everything would be okay on the grounds you can't miss what you never had?

[Not So Wise]

Aye pretty much try will try to turn UK around like Bush did with with USA after 9/11. Would not susprise me to them soon trying to create over here a version of Americas SS...woops mean Homeland security. And suspension or sever curtailing of most of basic civil liberties we take for granted like unlimited detention without trail, invasion of privacy without just cause bla bla bla

Yep pretty much exactly what the terrorists want, to make us have to live under the same conditions they currently have in iraq.

[AtW]

They won't have manpower and sniffing dogs looking for explosive on all tube stations all the time. Even though I think there are now automated systems doing it but I think they use XRays and not really meant for humans being XRayed at hips level.

The kind of "liberties" Clarke is referring to are those that will allow him detention without trial, trials by "special judges" without jury etc. Blunkett and Clarke are consistently trying to lower proof for conviction from "beyong reasonable doubt" to "balance of probabilities". That's serious stuff that goes far beyond ID card.