Reply to: We are all petty crooks!

[xoggoth]

Yeh, I often send my Companies House form back a week late. I should be locked up.

[Ardesco]

INAL so I am not really the person to give advice, however I'm fairly sure you would have had to go to court and argued that it was unfair for them to force you to sign it. You would then be able to appeal and have the conviction quashed.


There may well be leverage if you just signed the form though, as you could argue you only signed it because you thought they would fine you £1000 and put points on your license if you didn't...

The big positive is that everybody who is snapped by a camera will be able to refuse to sign the form from 29th onwards if the case is won by Francis and if they try to fine you £1000 and give you points you can tell them where to stick it because you have case law from the highest court in the EU saying that it is a breach of your human rights.

[timh]

Do you know if there would be positive implications for everybody who's had a fixed penalty, or just those who reused to sign the S172 form and were taken to court for that?

[Ardesco]

The case is:

Judgment
O’Halloran and Francis v. the United Kingdom

http://www.echr.coe.int/ECHR/EN/Head...uled+hearings/
Random stuff around if you google it, the only links I have are to a member only forum that you have to pay to access however so i'm not a huge amount of help I'm afraid.

If Francis wins though expect a slew of ceompensation claims by people who have been convicted and forced to sign a NIP under the threat of legal action if they didn't.

[Clippy]

Hurry up Thursday, the ECHR ruling on a speeding case should be out. If the government loose they will be in a bit of a panic due to the number of people who will be able to go back to court to get a refund on thier fines and points removed from thier license.

I think it would make a lovely welcome to the job pressie for our glourious new head of state...

Any links to this case Ardesco?

[Swamp Thing]

I think this is a middle-class reaction...

Actually, I revise my comment. Class doesn’t come into it. We’re all affected, regardless of our socio-economic background. Why the report focuses on ‘middle class’ I don’t know (I guess middle class is an easy target).

[Ardesco]

Hurry up Friday, the ECHR ruling on a speeding case should be out. If the government loose they will be in a bit of a panic due to the number of people who will be able to go back to court to get a refund on thier fines and points removed from thier license.

I think it would make a lovely welcome to the job pressie for our glourious new head of state...

[timh]

It's because the law of the land is not a perfect representation of what is right and what is wrong, and most people understand that.

Incidentally, I encourage everyone to fight fixed penalties for speeding by a trivial amount - if there are no easy pickings then maybe that particular madness will cease.

[The Lone Gunman]

I think this is a middle-class reaction to the way Citizen UK is treated these days by the govt, police and authorities. We are taxed more for no clear reason, we feel less safe (and the police cherry-pick the crimes to investigate in order to cope with resource issues and to boost their solved/nicked figures), our local infrastructures are collapsing and we don’t understand why since council taxes keep going up. The (mostly) law-abiding majority get more speeding fines and more ever-so-clever Gatso cameras are installed, but no more prisons get built. Why?

Net result: we feel disenfranchised and ignored, and when interest is shown in us, it is to pick us off (back to Gatso cameras). It’s all very well for the author of this report to state that the middle classes “regard law-abidingness as a disadvantage”, but this should not come as a surprise when our institutions have little respect for us (and so we show little back).

Very well put. I was thinking similar over the weekend.
I have lost all respect for the law. I used to be a staunch supporter of the police and the judicial system but I have become more and more jaded over the years. I now see a system which searches out those who can afford to be fined and ignores other crimes.
My wife was assaulted by a gypo, the copper even recognised who it was but refused to go after him. My mate was taken out by a taxi only his years of biking saved him. Copper said your not badly hurt and its the drivers livelyhood so we will let him off.
Another mate gets done cause his number plate is too small.
Guess which offence carries a fine!!
If the public has no confidence in the law then the public will disregard the law.

I propose a revolution.

[Swamp Thing]

I think this is a middle-class reaction to the way Citizen UK is treated these days by the govt, police and authorities. We are taxed more for no clear reason, we feel less safe (and the police cherry-pick the crimes to investigate in order to cope with resource issues and to boost their solved/nicked figures), our local infrastructures are collapsing and we don’t understand why since council taxes keep going up. The (mostly) law-abiding majority get more speeding fines and more ever-so-clever Gatso cameras are installed, but no more prisons get built. Why?

Net result: we feel disenfranchised and ignored, and when interest is shown in us, it is to pick us off (back to Gatso cameras). It’s all very well for the author of this report to state that the middle classes “regard law-abidingness as a disadvantage”, but this should not come as a surprise when our institutions have little respect for us (and so we show little back).

[meridian]

Pah! The first two aren't even petty crimes - it's perfectly legal to give somebody cash, it doesn't avoid the payer any tax, and if too much change is given then it's unsolicited cash and you're perfectly within your rights to keep it until the person asks for it back.

[Troll]

Just a way of justifying compulsory registration of the middle classes onto the DNA database- fair etc etc

[Kyajae]

Unbelievable her dad is Nigel Lawson

And a woman agreed to breed with that!

[Clippy]

Nigella Lawson is a pretty cook

Unbelievable her dad is Nigel Lawson

[Diver]

I'm honest as the day I am

hang on a mo lets just finish this invoice.

2 hrs @ £44.00 per = £176 + vat @ 17.5% = £193.35

oops!

4 hrs @ £44.00 per = £176 + vat @ 17.5% = £193.35

that's better!

now where was I?