Reply to: WE all want IR35 benefits (surely KUATB?)

[Stevie Wonder Boy]

wtf would you do with 40 big data engineers?

You clearly would be surprised. - My current contract is hiring that number. Private sector. I wonder where the 10 or so data engineers on the market will end up.

[psychocandy]

To be honest, on a practical level, my only gripe with the concept of IR35 is that it means I can't compete commercially for contracts away from home.

It's not far fetched to believe that even if inside agreements did become widespread that contract rates would increase as people flow back to permie - which is fine for local stuff where a bit of mileage and lunch is a perk. But, as I say, it would mean really pricing yourself out the market to cover any staying away expenses.

And as someone who is more consultant than contractor that really rubs raw, because I could go and get a permie consultant job based at home and be sent away for long periods, where I get to claim expenses just like I do now.

Non practically I have a lot of issues with the whole bulltulip and I'm thoroughly glad to see the government suffering. Not that it'll make a blind bit of difference to their decision making.

Yes thats another thing. Inside IR35 means no more expenses.

As you say, not a huge issue for local candidates (like me at current client) but its a double whammy for live away contractors who now have to shell out for accomodation etc out of net.

The current effect of IR35 on the PS client I work at is that:-

1) A lot of contractors left because of the uncertainty/chance of retrospective.
2) They've had to raise rates by 35%.
3) They're now pretty much stuck with local candidates only because its still not worth paying the hotel yourself.

For someone like me, coming in at April 2017 (So no retrospective) with the increased rate meaning take home was the same, minimal travel, it was golden. As it is for future renewals.

It was a complete cluster**** before April 2017 and I'm sure a lot of PS clients didn't really think about when they declared IR35 status. They can't have.

Another reason why I think if this transfers to the private sector and private companies start to work out this then it'll be chaos.

[TonyF]

To be honest, on a practical level, my only gripe with the concept of IR35 is that it means I can't compete commercially for contracts away from home.

Yep - £25k in travel and subsistence to be paid for out of your post tax salary is going to be hard to negotiate with a client

[vwdan]

To be honest, on a practical level, my only gripe with the concept of IR35 is that it means I can't compete commercially for contracts away from home.

It's not far fetched to believe that even if inside agreements did become widespread that contract rates would increase as people flow back to permie - which is fine for local stuff where a bit of mileage and lunch is a perk. But, as I say, it would mean really pricing yourself out the market to cover any staying away expenses.

And as someone who is more consultant than contractor that really rubs raw, because I could go and get a permie consultant job based at home and be sent away for long periods, where I get to claim expenses just like I do now.

Non practically I have a lot of issues with the whole bulltulip and I'm thoroughly glad to see the government suffering. Not that it'll make a blind bit of difference to their decision making.

[northernladuk]

Probably? Anyone even considering an inside IR35 contract for public sector and not getting substantially more take home than a permie needs to think carefully if they're head needs sorting out.

<cough>

[psychocandy]

Cos you probably still get paid more? Cos you don't have to do performance reviews? Cos getting rid of an employee is hard work so they still want flexible resources?

Probably? Anyone even considering an inside IR35 contract for public sector and not getting substantially more take home than a permie needs to think carefully if they're head needs sorting out.

[psychocandy]

Surely you just quit and go permie? Why would you put up with it without employment benefits?

Are you serious? How much are employment benefits worth to you then?

£3-4K a month in your pocket to have paid sick, holidays etc. Gotta to be pretty good benefits.....

[psychocandy]

PC is. I was up to 5 months ago.

Yep Public sector gig inside IR35 since April 2017. No difference except it turned out easier to go umbrella. Obviously, tonks more tax but 35% rate increase sorted that one out. Worked out its better to put loads into pension rather than lose almost 50% of it to tax/ni as well.

And of course, I dont have to worry about IR35 at all.

[b0redom]

wtf would you do with 40 big data engineers?

Hide the pies and tell them to go on a diet...

[Mordac]

wtf would you do with 40 big data engineers?

Sit back and enjoy the stimulating conversation? Thought not...

[DaveB]

wtf would you do with 40 big data engineers?

Engineer some really big data?

[original PM]

An agent was telling me earlier this week that some government dept. was looking for 40 big-data engineers, outside London, permie and paying peanuts. Urgently.

I think we both just rolled our eyes.

wtf would you do with 40 big data engineers?

[TwoWolves]

Hard to understand why governments are so ignorant and dim witted at times. IR35 is just one of many examples.

An agent was telling me earlier this week that some government dept. was looking for 40 big-data engineers, outside London, permie and paying peanuts. Urgently.

I think we both just rolled our eyes.

[xoggoth]

Hard to understand why governments are so ignorant and dim witted at times. IR35 is just one of many examples.

[d000hg]

Surely you just quit and go permie? Why would you put up with it without employment benefits?

Cos you probably still get paid more? Cos you don't have to do performance reviews? Cos getting rid of an employee is hard work so they still want flexible resources?