Reply to: Cost of (motoring) carbon

[BarbarianAtTheDoor]

Sorry we were talking about Hungary. It seems that there is 0% tax there too.

This is from an official statement from the Hungarian Customs And Finance Guard (translation by me, but IANAL):

"... in Hungary, for vehicles operating on the national roads, according to current hungarian legislature, the only fuels allowed are, (based on the regulating standards) petrol, heavy oil and either liquified or gas aggregate energy sources. ..."

You can read a long analysis of the subject in hungarian if you're really interested.

You can't use veggie oil for filling up legally back at home, I'm positive of that.

It was all over the news last year, when the story broke and the government wanted to make sure everyone knows what happens if you get caught..

[IR35 Avoider]

I think we are arguing at cross purposes here. The CO2 fugures are correct as are the Carbon figures. It just depends on what you are worrying about. Lucifers point that there is not 2.7Kg of carbon in a litre of fuel is correct, there isnt, but there is 2.7kg of CO2 which is produced by combining the Carbon content with Oxygen from the atmosphere.

Yes, I suppose my thread title caused confusion. In my post I was never talking about anything other than CO2. I think "Carbon" (as in "Carbon tax") is always shorthand for CO2, when used in an environmental context.

[Paddy]

It's perfectly legit to run your car on sunflower oil (or whatever) as long as you register for fuel duty and pay it. HMRC would have you believe that the duty is due when you fill the tank up (which is when you pay it at a conventional filling station) but they are wrong and were successfully challenged in court on this point last year. The duty is actually due within 28 days of your use of the fuel and it is at a rate of 27p per litre for biodiesel fuel.

Sorry we were talking about Hungary. It seems that there is 0% tax there too.
Can't be bothered to read it all..
http://www.fas.usda.gov/gainfiles/200605/146187708.pdf

[Lucifer Box]

What happens if you buy some veg oil from the filling station? Also what do you do if your car is designed to run on veg oil only?

It's perfectly legit to run your car on sunflower oil (or whatever) as long as you register for fuel duty and pay it. HMRC would have you believe that the duty is due when you fill the tank up (which is when you pay it at a conventional filling station) but they are wrong and were successfully challenged in court on this point last year. The duty is actually due within 28 days of your use of the fuel and it is at a rate of 27p per litre for biodiesel fuel.

[spankmebono]

Question Authority

If you want a different opinion try reading this article
UK goes into armageddon mode
at this blog, http://libertyscott.blogspot.com/ there are some worthwhile links too

[DaveB]

They give a figure of 10.1kg CO2 per US gallon. Divide by 3.78 (litres in a US gallon) and you get 2.67 Kg per litre, more or less what the site I found said.

Thats for CO2 not carbon. CO2 is only 27% carbon by weight. 2.67*0.27=0.72Kg per litre.

I think we are arguing at cross purposes here. The CO2 fugures are correct as are the Carbon figures. It just depends on what you are worrying about. Lucifers point that there is not 2.7Kg of carbon in a litre of fuel is correct, there isnt, but there is 2.7kg of CO2 which is produced by combining the Carbon content with Oxygen from the atmosphere.

[hyperD]

When people started filling up on used veggie oil, policemen were told to look for cars "smelling like chips".

Unless you're friendly with the local rendőrség.

[BarbarianAtTheDoor]

What happens if you buy some veg oil from the filling station?

I should have said "at the pump". There are no pumps for veggie oil back at home.

Also what do you do if your car is designed to run on veg oil only?

I've never even heard of such a concept. People usually just fiddled around with their conventional systems to run on cooking oil.

It was all the rage last summer.

[Paddy]

I know for a fact that's not the case. For example in Hungary, it is actually illegal to use anything besides what you can buy at the station for motoring use, since there's no legal way for anyone besides the national oil monopoly to pay all the taxes (about the same amount as over here).

When people started filling up on used veggie oil, policemen were told to look for cars "smelling like chips".

I shiat you not.

What happens if you buy some veg oil from the filling station? Also what do you do if your car is designed to run on veg oil only?

[BarbarianAtTheDoor]

Britain is the only country to tax these oils for road use.

I know for a fact that's not the case. For example in Hungary, it is actually illegal to use anything besides what you can buy at the station for motoring use, since there's no legal way for anyone besides the national oil monopoly to pay all the taxes (about the same amount as over here).

When people started filling up on used veggie oil, policemen were told to look for cars "smelling like chips".

I shiat you not.

[IR35 Avoider]

It's per gallon. Figures are here

CO2 Emmisions are 10.1Kg/Gallon for diesel, of which approx 27% is carbon by weight = ~2.75Kg of carbon.

Divide that by 4.54 ( litres to the gallon ) and you get 0.6kg carbon/litre.

They give a figure of 10.1kg CO2 per US gallon. Divide by 3.78 (litres in a US gallon) and you get 2.67 Kg per litre, more or less what the site I found said.

[Paddy]

What is also forgotten is that it cost less and uses less energy to refine Diesel.

If the government were serious on using green fuel; they would not tax veg oil, sunflower oil etc that are all carbon neutral. Britain is the only country to tax these oils for road use.

[Lucifer Box]

what's worse Brown Stuff dreads to think that he may lose any of those huge revenues that he gets from motorists.

Hence the rush to road charging to make sure that all those tax evaders not using petrol and diesel pay their fair share.

[Lucifer Box]

Divide that by 4.54 ( litres to the gallon ) and you get 0.6kg carbon/litre.

Now that's more like it. Thanks, DaveB.

[AtW]

I can't be bothered to look up the exact level of fuel tax, but I think we are due something like a 75% reduction.

The problem is that none of the money you, I and other motorists pay right now actually go towards saving environment - heck I run diesel so I am already doing my bit, but the irony of the situation is that all that huge money go to other things than compesating damage to environment and what's worse Brown Stuff dreads to think that he may lose any of those huge revenues that he gets from motorists.