Originally posted by NotAllThere
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Previously on "Council & Agency have colluded not to Furlough me"
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Originally posted by oilboil View PostNo - if you are paying employers NI you aren't an employee, you are a contingent resource using their payroll processing service. If you were an actual employee they would pay the employers NI as they are your employer. I can't see a staffer at Accenture being asked to pay the employers NI due on their salary, can you?
The client pays the fee to the agency. The agency deducts their percentage, leaving the notional fee. They then make all the PAYE deductions, including erNIC, and hand over to the worker what's left. The fact that the erNIC comes out of a the notional fee is utterly irrelevant. Legally, the worker is an employee of the agency. Just as it would be if the worker had gone through an umbrella company.
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Originally posted by Mr S T View PostI pay employees and employers National Insurance contributions. So I would think I am an employee of the agency??
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Originally posted by psychocandy View Posthmm yes I suppose. But OK client says take 3 months off (and you've got 5 month left). What would you do?
I'd be straight off getting another gig. Then if I got one handing in notice if I could on the first one. If there was no notice period then its more complicated of course.
Apply MOO and say no thanks in 3 months?
I dont think any of us would sit at home and suck up the 3 months....
Was just being pedantic about the wording..
they can tell contractors they're not needed for 3 months then they are still obliged to come back if requested
The reality is, as you stay, no one in their right mind would stick around. They'd get another gig, give notice and leave.
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Originally posted by northernladuk View PostTechnically the can if the contract is long enough.....
I'd be straight off getting another gig. Then if I got one handing in notice if I could on the first one. If there was no notice period then its more complicated of course.
Apply MOO and say no thanks in 3 months?
I dont think any of us would sit at home and suck up the 3 months....
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Originally posted by oilboil View PostThey aren't allowed to charge for these things if you are on furlough - it's in black and white in the rules.
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Originally posted by Mr S T View PostI would have gladly paid their overheads if they asked me, and Im sure 100% of other contractors would do the same as getting some furlough help is better then nothing.
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Originally posted by Mr S T View PostI would have gladly paid their overheads if they asked me, and Im sure 100% of other contractors would do the same as getting some furlough help is better then nothing.
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Originally posted by oilboil View PostThey could have, but it costs them to process payroll and they have other costs like apprentice levy that the furlough doesn't pay. So they'd be paying out of their pockets to allow them to furlough him. It wouldn't be much but if they have lots of people on this type of payment process it would quickly mount up
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Originally posted by psychocandy View PostSaying that, its not just contractors who dont get this. Naming no names, I know of a client who thinks they can tell contractors they're not needed for 3 months then they are still obliged to come back if requested. Not me BTW.
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Originally posted by oilboil View PostYou are missing the point, its a contract and they've terminated - they are legally allowed to so.
You are missing the point, the furlough scheme is for employees the employer wishes to retain but has no means to pay (in its simplest form), they don't want to retain you (they might be happy to rehire you later but that's a different beast)
You are missing the point, the furlough scheme is optional and an employer has no obligation to put any employee on it (and they can choose to put some but not other on it)
If you want to throw good money after bad, by all means talk to a solicitor, but after trousering your notes they'll just tell you exactly what we've told you.
Its a contract they can terminate it if they want. They obviously wanted to. You are free to do whatever now. You have no obligation to go back ever. Obviously, they are confident they can call in a few months and pick you back up.
Saying that, its not just contractors who dont get this. Naming no names, I know of a client who thinks they can tell contractors they're not needed for 3 months then they are still obliged to come back if requested. Not me BTW.
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Originally posted by NotAllThere View PostThe agency was his employer. They could have put him on furlough - regardless of the client action.
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Originally posted by northernladuk View PostBut they aren't your employer. They are your client.
Not sure what's immoral about them not helping you when they can't.
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Originally posted by Mr S T View PostThanks for the lesson, I realise now we are expendable assets. Live by the sword die by the sword. But if I was a Ltd company I could have put myself on furlough
The only slight positive here is if you were at a private company through a limited in exactly the same situation its likely you would have been finished quite a bit earlier.Last edited by northernladuk; 20 May 2020, 00:56.
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