Reply to: Contract End Date and Day Off

[TheFaQQer]

Invoice agency, if they don't pay up, start proceedings. Simples.

This.

If they don't want to pay up on time, then you add the charges that you are allowed to charge and invoice them for that. If they still don't pay up, then it's a small claims court action (particularly now the threshold has increased).

[Taita]

I know what you mean.

Was caught by surprised that I even need to seek help on CUK.

As I originally didn't even bother to interrept any rule in my contract, I just went straight into a frank discussion with my client hoping to properly plan my exit. Which was actually a mistake, as they contacted HR straight away and told me I *must* stay for 4 weeks, not even a day less.

I then found it very strange and started reviewing my own contract, hence started this thread.

If the client had been proactive in working out a plan with me for the remaining 3 or 4 or whatever weeks; and actually try to understand the current project status (I offered to sit down and review current tasks at hand, but they refused); and not exercising clauses they have no contractual right to; I would be happy to work my a*** off for the remaining time, including weekends and overtime(which I don't get paid extra), and I did offer that option at the beginning of the discussion.

This is largely due to the contractor-unfriendly client manager being mis-led by HR, and not bother to understand the situation.

I understand better now. Every now and then you encounter uncompromising behaviour from a line manager (especially when 'guided' by HR) and there is not much you can do about it.

However, given that your are dealing with unsympathetic people expect to have payment delayed but I do not believe you need to worry about being sued. Clients and agents know there is little to be achieved by that and they may have to pay their own costs even if the win. So generally they do not do it unless the have suffered serious financial damage.

[d000hg]

Sounds like you might need to go off due to too much stress.

[panadol]

If I was the Client/Agent and miffed by your interpretation of the rules to suit yourself rather than you conducting your business in a conventional manner, I would delay your final payment for a few months. You should ask yourself what would you do/feel if you were the Client? There are all sorts of ways of plausibly delaying payments - lost invoice- incorrect invoice- cheque in the post- accounts system changes - missing timesheet- are you sure you have not got it - misquoted bank details/bank looking for remittance etc.......

I know what you mean.

Was caught by surprised that I even need to seek help on CUK.

As I originally didn't even bother to interrept any rule in my contract, I just went straight into a frank discussion with my client hoping to properly plan my exit. Which was actually a mistake, as they contacted HR straight away and told me I *must* stay for 4 weeks, not even a day less.

I then found it very strange and started reviewing my own contract, hence started this thread.

If the client had been proactive in working out a plan with me for the remaining 3 or 4 or whatever weeks; and actually try to understand the current project status (I offered to sit down and review current tasks at hand, but they refused); and not exercising clauses they have no contractual right to; I would be happy to work my a*** off for the remaining time, including weekends and overtime(which I don't get paid extra), and I did offer that option at the beginning of the discussion.

This is largely due to the contractor-unfriendly client manager being mis-led by HR, and not bother to understand the situation.

[psychocandy]

If I was the Client/Agent and miffed by your interpretation of the rules to suit yourself rather than you conducting your business in a conventional manner, I would delay your final payment for a few months. You should ask yourself what would you do/feel if you were the Client? There are all sorts of ways of plausibly delaying payments - lost invoice- incorrect invoice- cheque in the post- accounts system changes - missing timesheet- are you sure you have not got it - misquoted bank details/bank looking for remittance etc.......

Are you mad or something? This really winds me up.

Not getting into the rights and wrongs of giving notice (thats a different argument) but the OP has quite legally and within contract given notice. Nothing wrong with that. Also, nothing wrong with how hes interpreted it either - hes right, client is wrong.

Dont see how this gives the client the right to act like a child and throw toys out of the cot. If OP has done the work, he deserves to get paid. end of.

Also, if its via an agency, client attitude is mostly irrelevant. Invoice agency, if they don't pay up, start proceedings. Simples.

[Taita]

Thanks for the help.
Yeah..ashame about (6)...

That's what I understood the business relationship and notice period.

The notice period is for terminating the contract, which *usually* determine the contractor's last day, which more often lies on the same day in most cases.

Am trying to negotiate an end date with client, but they are saying, 4 weeks, not a day less.

But I was thinking, "hang on, you cannot do this". I guess they are not used to dealing with contractors.

Another question:
1) If I do take a few days off before the last day they prefer. Can they sue for damages or anything as I am unable to finish the project ?

If I was the Client/Agent and miffed by your interpretation of the rules to suit yourself rather than you conducting your business in a conventional manner, I would delay your final payment for a few months. You should ask yourself what would you do/feel if you were the Client? There are all sorts of ways of plausibly delaying payments - lost invoice- incorrect invoice- cheque in the post- accounts system changes - missing timesheet- are you sure you have not got it - misquoted bank details/bank looking for remittance etc.......

[d000hg]

That suggestion (which I think they thought I was asking for approval) got turned down, and they insist on a 4 weeks stay, as HR told them I am on 4 weeks notice.

So tell them HR are wrong and your end-date is in fact X but you are still available for extra hours until X. If HR are tell them something it's reasonable they'd believe it to be true, so either way tell them that regardless of what HR or anyone else say, X WILL be your last day.

[psychocandy]

Totally agree.
That's what I was trying to achieve. Set the last day in 3 weeks, and offered weekend and longer hours to get whatever needs doing done.

That suggestion (which I think they thought I was asking for approval) got turned down, and they insist on a 4 weeks stay, as HR told them I am on 4 weeks notice.

The more I discussed it here, the more I realised how unreasonable they were, especially when I was just trying to help plan my exit.

Will try to reason with them one last time.
If the bridge is already burnt, then let it burn I suppose.

Sounds like their HR dept is thinking with permie notice period mentality. But deffo as above.

Like you said, you've done what you can and been reasonable. Let it go now and just do as planned.

[panadol]

They can get upset even if you are not breaking the contract but all you can really do is firmly tell them when your last day will be and make sure everyone you work with knows, so you can get things tidied away and nobody is caught off guard.

I suppose you could offer to work some Saturdays or make up a few days worth of hours in longer days which also gets you more money, but it seems unlikely this will materially affect how much you can get done in the notice period.

Totally agree.
That's what I was trying to achieve. Set the last day in 3 weeks, and offered weekend and longer hours to get whatever needs doing done.

That suggestion (which I think they thought I was asking for approval) got turned down, and they insist on a 4 weeks stay, as HR told them I am on 4 weeks notice.

The more I discussed it here, the more I realised how unreasonable they were, especially when I was just trying to help plan my exit.

Will try to reason with them one last time.
If the bridge is already burnt, then let it burn I suppose.

[d000hg]

They can get upset even if you are not breaking the contract but all you can really do is firmly tell them when your last day will be and make sure everyone you work with knows, so you can get things tidied away and nobody is caught off guard.

I suppose you could offer to work some Saturdays or make up a few days worth of hours in longer days which also gets you more money, but it seems unlikely this will materially affect how much you can get done in the notice period.

[psychocandy]

Totally agree. The flexibility is why I contract. I want to work on multiple projects at once, I want to have control of my time, and I am bearing the uncertainty (at a cost/reward) for not having a comfortable full time employment with benefits and holidays.

However, sadly I noticed contracting ways have changed a lot in recent years.

Nowadays, I feel like many clients like to treat contractors as perms when they want, as many contractors are too worried to voice out or are uncertain of their position to begin with. (Lucky we have CUK to ask ) )

And often when I voiced out any matter, client managers were usually caught off-guard and freaked out. They don't understand the contracting-company/client relationship at all. So they would ring a lot of alarm bells, as they don't want to get into trouble themselves.

The saga continues...

Agreed. A LOT of clients just want contractors to be like permies they can get rid of. And they dont care how it all works or how it should work.

And of course you've got contractors who will do what the client/agent says regardless. i.e. working with no contract, working weekends for free wrc.

[Sausage Surprise]

Yep, I could just do that. In fact, I could go sick starting today, after 2 weeks of no service, agency have the right to terminate my contract. Even better, I'd get a little break before next.

I was *being nice* to let them know the situation such that we could together plan a proper handover and fully utilised my remaining weeks.

What are the symptoms of bird flu? I should start coughing.

When "being nice" fails, I find a bad back wins the day.

[panadol]

FFS ......just "go sick" for the 3 days.

Yep, I could just do that. In fact, I could go sick starting today, after 2 weeks of no service, agency have the right to terminate my contract. Even better, I'd get a little break before next.

I was *being nice* to let them know the situation such that we could together plan a proper handover and fully utilised my remaining weeks.

What are the symptoms of bird flu? I should start coughing.

[Sausage Surprise]

FFS ......just "go sick" for the 3 days.

[northernladuk]

Totally agree. The flexibility is why I contract. I want to work on multiple projects at once, I want to have control of my time, and I am bearing the uncertainty (at a cost/reward) for not having a comfortable full time employment with benefits and holidays.

However, sadly I noticed contracting ways have changed a lot in recent years.

Nowadays, I feel like many clients like to treat contractors as perms when they want, as many contractors are too worried to voice out or are uncertain of their position to begin with. (Lucky we have CUK to ask ) )

And often when I voiced out any matter, client managers were usually caught off-guard and freaked out. They don't understand the contracting-company/client relationship at all. So they would ring a lot of alarm bells, as they don't want to get into trouble themselves.

The saga continues...

Amen to that... and it is only going to get worse and pressure from HMRC to re-adjust their policies to reflect this until contracting is the defacto standard to use contractor and the whole model will fall apart. That's why I get so annoyed at people who contract with absolutely no idea why they are doing it and just see it is another job with better money. Thrashing a dead horse I know but gives me something to moan about