Reply to: confused: Zero day notice on my side good or bad?

[northernladuk]

The dispute is that this not a valid reason to terminate the contract.

There is no apparent misconduct and apparently the skills are still required on the project.

Even then there is nothing stopping the contractor from using -isms to state that was why the contract was ended (there have been women on here who were terminated immediately as per contract who told the client they were pregnant), or arguing that they have been slandered.

If you look at your own contracts you will find clauses clearly linked or unlinked from each other. Plus there will be a disclaimer stating if a clause is found to be invalid the other clauses stand.

This clearly indicates clauses can be challenged in a court of law.

This is why:
1. Contractors are given short contracts/extensions, or,
2. Clients/agencies use a misconduct reason to get rid of contractors

I must be totally missing something here. The client gives notice, it doesn't matter what for and doesn't need a reason. He is just giving notice. End of... No dispute, no reasons needed, no legal situation.

[Wanderer]

do I have a case? It's only another 13 days but heck, it's (partly) the principle.

Contractually, no you don't have a case. The agency doesn't have to give you advance notice so you are out the door. That's why you were (hopefully) paid a large premium over what an equivilent permie would have been paid in the same position.

Politely thank the client, give them your business card and tell them if they ever need a highly professional, flexible resource at any time in the future then you would be more than happy to do business with them again.

Then go down the pub and drown your sorrows.

[SueEllen]

But the OP has just admitted his notice period is immediate. How can he sue for breach when he signed a contract with an immediate finish notice period.



Again, where is the dispute? They serve immediate notice on him as per his contract.

The dispute is that this not a valid reason to terminate the contract.

There is no apparent misconduct and apparently the skills are still required on the project.

Even then there is nothing stopping the contractor from using -isms to state that was why the contract was ended (there have been women on here who were terminated immediately as per contract who told the client they were pregnant), or arguing that they have been slandered.

If you look at your own contracts you will find clauses clearly linked or unlinked from each other. Plus there will be a disclaimer stating if a clause is found to be invalid the other clauses stand.

This clearly indicates clauses can be challenged in a court of law.

This is why:
1. Contractors are given short contracts/extensions, or,
2. Clients/agencies use a misconduct reason to get rid of contractors

[northernladuk]

Not exactly.

If you are absolutely clear that your role on the project has not ended and there is no misconduct on your part, then depending how the contract is written you could sue the agency for breach of contract. However if it's only 13 days it is likely to not be worth it and you are better off finding a new contract this side of xmas.

But the OP has just admitted his notice period is immediate. How can he sue for breach when he signed a contract with an immediate finish notice period.

People on here have different opinions on MOO and as I've been paid notice before for a project that ended early, I'm in the camp it really depends on the clauses in your contract and you need to see a solicitor for a proper legal opinion if there is a dispute.

Again, where is the dispute? They serve immediate notice on him as per his contract.

[SueEllen]

Just checked the wording again and from the agency side the notice is 'immediate'.

So is it the opinion of this board that that really means a contract can be terminated / end date brought forward for no valid - according to the wording of the rest of the contract - reason whatsoever?

Not exactly.

If you are absolutely clear that your role on the project has not ended and there is no misconduct on your part, then depending how the contract is written you could sue the agency for breach of contract. However if it's only 13 days it is likely to not be worth it and you are better off finding a new contract this side of xmas.

People on here have different opinions on MOO and as I've been paid notice before for a project that ended early, I'm in the camp it really depends on the clauses in your contract and you need to see a solicitor for a proper legal opinion if there is a dispute.

[northernladuk]

Just checked the wording again and from the agency side the notice is 'immediate'.

So is it the opinion of this board that that really means a contract can be terminated / end date brought forward for no valid - according to the wording of the rest of the contract - reason whatsoever?

I am afraid you should have checked this at the time of negotiation and had it written out. The fact that you didn't know what it was and had to even re-check it speaks volumes. You signed up for it, they are pulling it. That's that. A valuable lesson in being a little more vigilant next time. They are not bringing the end date forward, they are invoking notice for which no reason is needed (would be professional of them to explain why though), which happens to be immediate. Seems pretty black and white to me.

[jeanvaljean]

no notice

To be honest I don't think we have ever discussed the client having no notice. You having no notice is good for IR35 but can't comment on the client not having one. The norm is for you not to be able to give notice and they have 2 weeks, a month, whatever. I think it is pretty poor of them to enter in to a contract they cannot get out of resulting in this carry on.

If you do cause a fuss they could use that as an excuse for unacceptable behavoiur. I would be careful not to give them grounds to try it on. God knows what the legalities around that are though lol

Just checked the wording again and from the agency side the notice is 'immediate'.

So is it the opinion of this board that that really means a contract can be terminated / end date brought forward for no valid - according to the wording of the rest of the contract - reason whatsoever?

[northernladuk]

Thanks for prompt responses.

Yes, agency and accountants checked against IR35 and found it to be compliant ie definitely outside IR35 shackles. The fact that the agency has a 'no notice period' with me is double-plus good in that respect and has been discussed on these boards before.

Yes - going quietly might be better option - but not decided for sure yet.

To be honest I don't think we have ever discussed the client having no notice. You having no notice is good for IR35 but can't comment on the client not having one. The norm is for you not to be able to give notice and they have 2 weeks, a month, whatever. I think it is pretty poor of them to enter in to a contract they cannot get out of resulting in this carry on.

If you do cause a fuss they could use that as an excuse for unacceptable behavoiur. I would be careful not to give them grounds to try it on. God knows what the legalities around that are though lol

[jeanvaljean]

no notice

That sounds really odd. Having a contract where the client/agency can't give you notice. Someone has dropped a huge bollock there. Did you have your contract checked for IR35?

At the end of the day you get paid to do work, if they don't give you work I guess you don't get paid so they could play it that way rather than remove you. Either way if the writing is on the wall, taking in to account the number of days, I would be tempted to be professional, do what you can to hand over, thank them for the contract and hope they call you back when the guy they put in f's up. Swallowing your pride might pay dividends with future contracts?

Thanks for prompt responses.

Yes, agency and accountants checked against IR35 and found it to be compliant ie definitely outside IR35 shackles. The fact that the agency has a 'no notice period' with me is double-plus good in that respect and has been discussed on these boards before.

Yes - going quietly might be better option - but not decided for sure yet.

[northernladuk]

That sounds really odd. Having a contract where the client/agency can't give you notice. Someone has dropped a huge bollock there. Did you have your contract checked for IR35?

At the end of the day you get paid to do work, if they don't give you work I guess you don't get paid so they could play it that way rather than remove you. Either way if the writing is on the wall, taking in to account the number of days, I would be tempted to be professional, do what you can to hand over, thank them for the contract and hope they call you back when the guy they put in f's up. Swallowing your pride might pay dividends with future contracts?

[jeanvaljean]

no notice

When you say no notice don't you mean you cannot give notice and they can? What does it say in your contract about their notice period?

it says I have to stay until the end of the project.

The agency have 'none' against their notice to me clearly stated on schedule 1 - can't miss it!

But - reasons for client terminating contract equally clearly outlined elsewhere in the contract - and they have been happy with me, the assignment is continuing and I haven't been involved in any misconduct.

[northernladuk]

When you say no notice don't you mean you cannot give notice and they can? What does it say in your contract about their notice period?

[jeanvaljean]

No notice period versus early termination

In summary:

Client wants to bring forward end date of my contract but none of the reasons for termination as outlined in contract (misconduct, no further assignment, poor performance) applies.

Third party consultant wants to replace me and the client is buying this.

Feel very strongly client is in breach of contract but 'no notice period' with agency is clearly stated - but so are the reasons for termination of contract none of which applies - and agency and client are in agreement that none applies.

Is my goose well and truly cooked or do I have a case? It's only another 13 days but heck, it's (partly) the principle.

Jeanvaljean

[escapeUK]

I've decided to enjoy some time off which is why I started contracting in the first place to get more holiday while earning more money. 5 years down the line - I seemed to have forgotten that.

Me too. 3 Years of constant working end of this years and Im very rich and very tired.

[IR35FanClub]

Best IR35 answer is zero notice - can't be done for an employee, plus it deomnstrates a degree of financial risk.

Commercially not so good, you want as much notice as you can get to maximise your earning and minimise your risks; excpet somewhere else will be a performance clause that puts you out the door in minutes flat anyway.

So go for zero notice. You don't need it. Simples...

Thanks for the advice folks. The links were very useful. In the end however I've decided to pass on this contract. Its a renewal and the thing is, despite what the contract says, the politics are starting to piss me off, and starting to border on me losing direction and control. So it doesn't matter what the contract says. A couple of things that came through in emails today were the final straw. I need to be sure I'm outside IR35, not chance it.

I've decided to enjoy some time off which is why I started contracting in the first place to get more holiday while earning more money. 5 years down the line - I seemed to have forgotten that.