Reply to: Ridiculous Agency

[SueEllen]

You don't need any references at all for a CRB check (now DBS Disclosure check).

To be fair my most recent check was a Scottish one - no references required.

Prior to that I had English ones for charity work and to be honest every time I've ever volunteered properly they have always taken references even before the checks were in force.

[cojak]

He has the right to reply.

(Just not the right to advertise his latest venture...)

[expat]

Don you haven't answered the full post - what are the references needed for?

If you want to check if someone is safe around vulnerable people then you force them to undergo a CRB check. For that the references you need aren't previous agencies or clients as they won't have known the contractor long enough.

You don't need any references at all for a CRB check (now DBS Disclosure check).

[b0redom]

Looks like business is bad if the MD of an agency has the time and inclination to bump a 12 month+ year old thread.

[SueEllen]

Mod note: Don is the MD of Max20.

Hi Greg - Full ID, proof of address, right to work confirmation is becoming increasingly asked for within public sector accounts including the NHS (which is where we specialise). You certainly would have been asked to provide such information BUT unless you said you would NEVER supply this information this would not have prevented you going forward for the job. Once we have submitted your CV then we would work with you to get the appropriate documents in at the right time so everything is in place at time of interview, offer and placement. This is how we work - we never "fish" as the majority of our NHS clients have worked with us for over 10 years now so we do have plenty of real jobs to fill.

Best regards

Don Tomlinson
Managing Director

Don you haven't answered the full post - what are the references needed for?

If you want to check if someone is safe around vulnerable people then you force them to undergo a CRB check. For that the references you need aren't previous agencies or clients as they won't have known the contractor long enough.

[Don Tomlinson]

Good point but not 100% correct (as most things in life )

Mod note: Don is the MD of Max20.

Hi Greg - Full ID, proof of address, right to work confirmation is becoming increasingly asked for within public sector accounts including the NHS (which is where we specialise). You certainly would have been asked to provide such information BUT unless you said you would NEVER supply this information this would not have prevented you going forward for the job. Once we have submitted your CV then we would work with you to get the appropriate documents in at the right time so everything is in place at time of interview, offer and placement. This is how we work - we never "fish" as the majority of our NHS clients have worked with us for over 10 years now so we do have plenty of real jobs to fill.

Best regards

Don Tomlinson
Managing Director

Hi Guys,

I would like to just put this out there. I was contacted last week by an agency called Max20. Having been a contractor for quite some time I have come across my fair share of "rules" agencies work by. This, however, really took the biscuit. They refused to put me forward for a role because I wouldn't supply them with my passport and 2 references. This is before supplying the client with my CV. Some agencies I know try this but never enforce it as it isn't a legal requirement until a role is offered. I made the recruiter aware that I would submit this to several contracting boards as the attitude and language I got from them was atrocious. After all do you want your private details just floating around? Just a heads up and I hope people are as reluctant as I am to support these guys snooping around prior to putting you forward. Thanks. G

[Mrbob2]

I actually just started through Max20 on the NHS and had all the problems mentioned here.

I sent the documents back unsigned and told them, the wording and any reference to being an employee had to be removed and reminded them I am a service company not a person, they replied with “this is unusual and no one complains about it normally” but begrudgingly made the changes in my request.

What worried me most was the amount of effort to force you to OPT OUT of Company’s regulations 2003, in the contract I counted no less than 6 affirmations of the fact I want to OPT OUT….

I also read the Terms on their web site and again the amount of times they reference you to OPT OUT (with no OPT IN option, that’s illegal right?)

I am in no doubt had I not already met the client and knew the client wanted me they would have refused me the role If I had pushed staying opted IN.

That also happened with Senitor IT, basically forced me to OPT OUT, I wouldn’t get the contract (carefully worded without actually saying that) was the terms, again I knew enough to know I had already met the client so legally was opted in,
But Senitor pushed almost daily while I worked at the gig to OPT OUT, to the point I was told they would hold future payments if I did not OPT OUT on the website form!

This forcing to OPT OUT is starting to become more common to me and what the hell can we do? I got lucky so far with the agents not knowing quite enough about the situation with opt in or out all they know is they have to get us to opt out.

[Darksider]

For some reason, NHS staff seem to be getting a lot of attention lately. This is probably due to more sector merges and redundancies. Myself and a lot of the guys I'm working with at the moment (all ex-NHS) have gotten tonnes of calls the last 2 weeks fishing for information. I myself got one today from Venn trying to find out info.

[SueEllen]

Long time lurker here , prompted to finally correspond !!!!

I was contacted by this agency last week in relation to NHS roles. All seemed fine and above board until the asked me to fill in 2 documents.One the above mentioned 2 references + loads of un-necessary stuff in order for them to process my application ,but more worrying another to do with my health details including lots of words along the lines of 'staff' , 'employee' , 'employer'.

I phoned them straight away asking what this was all about and they said it was standard practice required in order to place people in the NHS ????

I told them that I was not staff , an employee nor would they be my employer so I had no need to fill them in , nor was it a legal requirement to provide health details for a job unless the role specifically required certain physical/mental necessities.

I eventually got a snotty voicemale saying no contractors had ever had a problem with these forms before so I should just fill them in !!

I did of course , 'politely' refuse.

You should report them either to the Department of Business or the Information Commissioner as why are they collecting personal details on people's health they have no legal requirement for?

[mos]

Many of the big, merged agents are now in-house, outsourced process providers. They simply do the donkey work HR used to do.

My hope is that the recession that we are arguably still in will decimate the agent landscape and give business a fresh start at some point in the (near) future.

I personally prefer to deal with the mid sized agencies. Large internationals are very unpleasant and inflexible. They force candidates to consent to transfer of reference checks to India - this is the trend to watch.

But on the plus side payments are more timely.

[Sausage Surprise]

I did a gig with Max20 in 2007 for about 6 months and they were fine. In their defence I recently did an NHS gig for another agency and got the form filling crap mentioned on here that I didn't get previously. Maybe it's something that's just happened .

[tractor]

...

Many of the big, merged agents are now in-house, outsourced process providers. They simply do the donkey work HR used to do. Small and often tin-pot agents are becoming the resourcer layer for the giants so we are increasingly seeing 2nd and 3rd (or worse) tier arrangements. Given that each layer has its' own policies and rules and are largely risk averse box tickers, the model we have been used to for a couple of decades has become ridiculous.

My hope is that the recession that we are arguably still in will decimate the agent landscape and give business a fresh start at some point in the (near) future. It seems atm that there are more agents than roles or even contractors.

[pickod]

Long time lurker here , prompted to finally correspond !!!!

I was contacted by this agency last week in relation to NHS roles. All seemed fine and above board until the asked me to fill in 2 documents.One the above mentioned 2 references + loads of un-necessary stuff in order for them to process my application ,but more worrying another to do with my health details including lots of words along the lines of 'staff' , 'employee' , 'employer'.

I phoned them straight away asking what this was all about and they said it was standard practice required in order to place people in the NHS ????

I told them that I was not staff , an employee nor would they be my employer so I had no need to fill them in , nor was it a legal requirement to provide health details for a job unless the role specifically required certain physical/mental necessities.

I eventually got a snotty voicemale saying no contractors had ever had a problem with these forms before so I should just fill them in !!

I did of course , 'politely' refuse.

[nomadd]

Hi Guys,

I would like to just put this out there. I was contacted last week by an agency called Max20. Having been a contractor for quite some time I have come across my fair share of "rules" agencies work by. This, however, really took the biscuit. They refused to put me forward for a role because I wouldn't supply them with my passport and 2 references. This is before supplying the client with my CV. Some agencies I know try this but never enforce it as it isn't a legal requirement until a role is offered. I made the recruiter aware that I would submit this to several contracting boards as the attitude and language I got from them was atrocious. After all do you want your private details just floating around? Just a heads up and I hope people are as reluctant as I am to support these guys snooping around prior to putting you forward. Thanks. G

It's happening everywhere these days, not just in agency staff. You just have to learn to be continually vigilant and firmly say "no thanks" and move on.

For example, this weekend I was looking to buy something. Contacted a company on the web - via their broken "contact form" as they had no email. The form insisted on full name, home phone, mobile phone, and full address. I didn't fill all this in, as all I wanted was a price for what they were selling - which mysteriously wasn't on their site. Got a shirty email back saying they couldn't supply any info as I hadn't given them all of my full personal details. So you move on.

[BolshieBastard]

With many of the larger agencies merging, I've noticed there are lots of small, previously unheard of agencies now touting for business in the contracting market.

It seems a lot of these small agencies have little or nothing in the way of client databases so are attempting to milk contractors for this information.

I'd just refuse them and keep looking for roles elsewhere.