Reply to: Contract role to be outsourced - can I tender for it?

[The Lone Gunman]

Make them an offer now. If they dont take it then walk away. If you can get another contract easy then you wont need a feferee.

Its nasty, but you dont want to be training the competition do you? Leave your name and number with a more senior manager so they can ring you when his empire collapses.

[vetran]

PCWorld

Charge £35 an hour, if you are cheaper than that they are on a winner.

Big boys charge that for 15 minutes of a £20 an hour contractor. Everything that isn't in the contract is extra and nothing will be in the contract! Their sales team & lawyers are better than your PHB could ever hope to be.

[Not So Wise]

The client does not have a clue what he is talking about. You know this and make this pretty clear in your first post.

Basiclly he has heard outsourceing is "the way to go" and by the looks of things will do it come hell or high water

Anyone with any experience knows consultancy will not be cheaper nor will it provide decent techical continuity (Place i am working at has been running a project with a consultancy for a year plus, 2 weeks before it goes live consultancy replaced the 2 principal tech leads with people who don't even know the technologys involved)

But while we might know this, by sounds of things trying to explain to client is like talking to a brick wall, if this is case give up

Which leaves with two choices

1) Draw up a list of consultances, aid in hand over and get out
2) Just get out now

Hard choice, with me personally though, i do not make "recomendations" like this unless i :
a) Know what doing/talking about (which in case of consultancys is universally "stay way")
b) Getting paid for this advice

[DodgyAgent]

To be honest, that's just laughable. IBM and Fujitsu would: 1) almost certainly not be interested in a tin-pot little 1-man deal, and 2) if they were, they'd cost the earth. To even make it worth their while they'd want at least a 6 figure profit over 5 years, so your IT manager is living on the wrong planet if he thinks he'd save any money by outsourcing to them.

I bet he hasn't even thought of the ramifications, anyway. Does he have any idea what his true costs are? He's probably looking at your monthly invoice and thinking you're a bit pricey.
It's worth you considering taking it on if you can make it work in conjunction with something else, say another local contract. That way if anything happens which you can't fix remotely, you can always pop down within the agreed SLA time (call it 4 hours, or lunchtime to be more precise )

You'd also need to look at (and look at getting) a decent outsourcing contract (it would run to several thousand pages) to make sure you're in control, not the client. Charge them your rate plus an admin percentage (100% seems reasonable - IBM's would be more like 500%).

It's not just replacing your arse. That's the easy bit. With any luck, you could suggest to the board that they outsource all the IT to you, and they can get rid of the idiot IT manager. That would be a tad ironic, don't you think?

Understand your customer. Why does he want to use IBM or Fujitsu? Simple answer is that he is covering his arse by using a big company. The cost issue is merely "spin" (If he says it, it must be true). The last thing he wants is a personal service from a contractor who may disappear after three months for a more lucrative offer elsewhere.

[BoredBloke]

Have they told you how much they expect to pay the new company and what level of service they can expect.

[Mordac]

The IT manager wants to use someone like IBM or Fujitsu - says they will be cheaper than using the agency.

To be honest, that's just laughable. IBM and Fujitsu would: 1) almost certainly not be interested in a tin-pot little 1-man deal, and 2) if they were, they'd cost the earth. To even make it worth their while they'd want at least a 6 figure profit over 5 years, so your IT manager is living on the wrong planet if he thinks he'd save any money by outsourcing to them.

I bet he hasn't even thought of the ramifications, anyway. Does he have any idea what his true costs are? He's probably looking at your monthly invoice and thinking you're a bit pricey.
It's worth you considering taking it on if you can make it work in conjunction with something else, say another local contract. That way if anything happens which you can't fix remotely, you can always pop down within the agreed SLA time (call it 4 hours, or lunchtime to be more precise )

You'd also need to look at (and look at getting) a decent outsourcing contract (it would run to several thousand pages) to make sure you're in control, not the client. Charge them your rate plus an admin percentage (100% seems reasonable - IBM's would be more like 500%).

It's not just replacing your arse. That's the easy bit. With any luck, you could suggest to the board that they outsource all the IT to you, and they can get rid of the idiot IT manager. That would be a tad ironic, don't you think?

[tacpot]

Funkyd - Outsourcing Consultant!

You should be charging more to outsource the IT Support for your customer.

Explain to the agency that their customer is asking you to do work that you are not contracted to provide, and that you are not prepared to do unless it is at a higher rate. IBM would charge £1500+ /day for outsourcing consultancy. Tell your agency you'll do it for £400/day!

Don't search for an outsourcer until you have:

1) worked out the minimum time you think you will have to work with the outsourcer to handover your knowledge and agree this with the IT Manager.

2) developed a set of supplier selection criteria with the IT Manager
(one of these should be a contractural commitment to hire you for the time you've worked out as above - I would get them to hire you through your agency.)

All the outourcers then have to carry the same cost to obtain the business, and your customer is assured that your time is available to the outsourcer if they want to use you. (They probably won't! They will probably come in, rubbish all your work and charge the customer a fortune to 'do it properly'! With any luck the IT Manager will cop some flack for not seeing that it was all rubbish!)

I wouldn't try to get any comercial gain out of introducing the outsourcer other than an period of guaranteed work.

I wouldn't like to be in your situation - Good Luck

tp

[funkyd]

Maybe get a written reference from them before it goes tits-up, because you know whose fault it will be then?

That is my main fear. I don't want to get the blame. The risk of something getting overlooked that the outsource setup blames on me when things go wrong is quite high.

I personally dont think an outsource solution will suit the senior staff - if they want support and they want it NOW. They will not put up with some remote helpdesk person telling them the SLA is a 2 hour response......

[expat]

Not really fussed - can easily get another contract for more money

That is good, if your current lot think that (a) there's no work for you to do, and (b) they can get it cheaper.

Maybe get a written reference from them before it goes tits-up, because you know whose fault it will be then?

[malvolio]

Not really fussed - can easily get another contract for more money

Walk away then. Immediately. They're clearly not worth the grief.

BTW if you're on market rate, and the agent adds 15%, point out that the replacement will be on less than market rate and therefore almost certainly less skilled in the role, and FJ and friends will add 150% for a non-revocable three year deal.

[funkyd]

Tell them the service is already outsourced (i.e. to you), and negotiate on that basis - i.e. try to find out why they're unhappy with your service. Maybe they'll agree to pay you the same if you take on some additional responsibility.

I don't understand why you want to work for an outsourcing company, when in essence you are an outsourcing company.

The only issue is cost. I've been monthly rolling for 18 months so I can't see any other problem - certainly nothing obvious. I did offer to go direct and they would save the 15% the agency take but the IT manager said he didn't want to upset the agency!

The IT manager wants to use someone like IBM or Fujitsu - says they will be cheaper than using the agency. Originally managment thought that all the IT
work was "done" and that there was no need for anyone.

Not really fussed - can easily get another contract for more money

[VectraMan]

Tell them the service is already outsourced (i.e. to you), and negotiate on that basis - i.e. try to find out why they're unhappy with your service. Maybe they'll agree to pay you the same if you take on some additional responsibility.

I don't understand why you want to work for an outsourcing company, when in essence you are an outsourcing company.

[threaded]

From my experience the outsourcer will say they can do it for less, but the company will end up paying much more. It's called business.

There again I usually get called in when such projects fsck up so I might be getting bad sample data.

[funkyd]

Who decides the handover period and how long can they last?

Obviosly the boss will want as short as possible to avoid paying twice for the duration. I will want as long as I can get away with and the outsource setup enough for them to feel happy - or rather enough to be able to get by and then blag it when problems occur....

Can you get two 3rd line support persons from an outsource setup on-site all day every day for less than £80k/pa all-in? This would be covering one main site, the DR site, DR support, all projects, support for travelling users etc etc.

[mcquiggd]

Firstly, nobody is non-expendable to any company... no matter how much they lose, the manager will always fire you if he feels like it.

Secondly, no guarantees you will be included in any deal with an outsourcer... if your current employer is taking that route 'as he thinks he will save money'... what makes you think a company supposed to replace you will pay you the same money you currently earn...?

You are in territory which is familiar to many of us...

'mentoring'

Its a phrase that basically means 'we pay development / support contract rates' but what we want is 'a team leader, trainer, and project manager all in one' to teach people what you know, oversee the technical handover, then feck off...

Thats why you often hear people repeat the phrase 'if it aint in your contract....'....

Companies use us. Agents use us. We use agents. We use companies.

It all depends on how amicable, professional, and at heart, mutually profitable the relationship is, as to whether you get a renewal.