Reply to: Newbie - letter of intent

[king132]

What are we talking? Extra 10%?[/QUOTE]

more like 25. Its not about the money anyway its the principle...

Thank you all v much for your 2 cents and a special thank you to Wikir Man....appreciate it dude!

[The Wikir Man]

Here we go - this is from a contract I did a few years back:

The Supplier agrees that for a period of six months after termination of this Agreement howsoever arising, it shall not...in any capacity provide services the same or similar to the Services provided under this Agreement...to the client...

The bit you quoted earlier is in reference to your ability to send a subsititute, not to revisit the client directly. Make sure there is nothing like this in your contract, and the client should do the same with theirs.

[Olly]

Capitalised words like "Project" will probably have a definition in the contract somewhere...does it?

No time period is stated because instead it is defined as being in force for the Project.

Jolly nice contract in my book, providing Project is defined as done and dusted piece of work.

Get the client on your side, make sure there's nothing blocking it in their contract with agency and go for it I say....providing the hassle is worth it.

What are we talking? Extra 10%?

[The Wikir Man]

I think you are looking at the wrong clause - there is usually a separate clause that states about going to the client through any other means.

Haven't got access to one of mine at the moment, but will look it up later.

[king132]

Sorry to revive this old thread but if I could get just a little more advice on this it would put me out my misery once and for all:

Right lots of people mentioned my contract with the agency, I've read the T&Cs and actually they are very vague it says somewhere along the lines of:

'The Service Provider (other than with the written permission of the Company which will not be unreasonably withheld) undertake the Project personally and must not (other than with such permission) assign or sub-contract his obligations under the contract.’

Does not state and time period and also what was interesting was the word "PROJECT" - My original contract states that I will be involved in XXXX project until project completion and actually that work I was originally brought in to do I’ve stopped and I'm doing other IT related work that the company is involved in.

My question: is it reasonable to assume that since I am no longer doing the project that was stated in my original contract – I can therefore work directly for the company as a self employed contractor doing other work?

[Fred Bloggs]

This isn't right. If you have an agency contract and you're trying to find ways round it, it's wrong. Nobody here is really on the agencies side as such, but in this case it seems wrong to me what the OP is trying to do. The OP should move from a brolly to a Ltd Co within the agency contract if possible and forget (for now) going direct with client co. IMO, the client co rep is very naive in considering this.

[Wanderer]

OK, so you are through an agency. What does your contract say about going direct? Did you opt out (in writing) of the agency regulations before meeting the client?

More importantly, what does the client's contract between themselves and your agency say about them poaching you?

Wikir Man's questions are VERY important.

If you did not Opt Out of the “Conduct of Employment Agencies and Employment Business Regulations” in writing before you were introduced to the client then you are in a stronger position as this may limit the amount the agency can come after you for.

Also, you will not be privy to the contract between your client and the agency so you never know what they may have agreed and there may be substantial payments due Client --> Agent in the event that you go direct.

I dont see it as push out the Agency exercise...i see it as me trying to take iniative to try and improve my own situation.

That's not the way the agency will see it. They won't like it up 'em at all.

If you are going to do it then don't tell the agency anything. Anything you DO say may be used against you. They may find out and cause all manner of grief later on though.

You could take a 6 week break if that's what your contract says, but you're cutting your nose off to spite your face a bit there unless you can find a job in the mean time.

Whatever you decide to do, good luck!

[Fat Dave]

Isn't there anything in your current contract to prevent this from happening?agencies take a very dim view on this kind of behaviour

Agreed. There was a time when agencies would grumble, threaten and then move on. In the current climate they are prepared to fight their corner. I've recently lost an opportunity to return to a previous client because of this. In my opinion the OP is being naive. There have been suggestions that a court could view these clauses as being unfair and a restriction of trade, but I for one have better things to spend my time and money on than testing it in court.

[The Wikir Man]

Does anyone have a rough idea/ calculation of how much it would cost my employers to go perm from the agency - i doubt they would stump up the cash for it but i might consider paying the fee myself if its viable

I'd guess somewhere in the region of 6 months commission, whatever that may be. Vague guess - 12x daily rate (6 months, 10% commission). May be higher or much lower - I honestly have no idea, but that's my initial guesstimate.

[king132]

First off thanks to all who have replied. I know ppl will see this as me trying to fob the agency off so i can earn a few quid extra and even though this is partly true i can actually see potential for growth in this role and i'd rather not be tied down to the agency.

I'm going to get a lawyer friend to go through my contract, but i'm guessing there will be a clause which states something about 6 month gap (which someone mentioned) in which case my idea of taking other employment for 1-2 weeks and then coming back wouldnt work and all this fuss would have been for nothing.

Does anyone have a rough idea/ calculation of how much it would cost my employers to go perm from the agency - i doubt they would stump up the cash for it but i might consider paying the fee myself if its viable

[Olly]

I love the way there is post after post from people who've not read what's going on and Northernchappy preaching about how the mindset of not being a employee is so blinking vital when it really isn't that crucial.

Before you go ANY further look carefully into the legal side of pissing on the agency.
If you intend to work elsewhere then for how long exactly?
Will the role still be there when you're done? (I doubt it)
Will this manager be able to run roughshod over procurement? Again I doubt it?

....client training you is unlikely to be good for IR35 but like most of us, just keep your head down and do what you can to ensure contracts and work practices fall outside. I'd be loather to rock the boat with any client who trained me up in SAP, it's a bloody goldmine!

[stingman123]

Isn't there anything in your current contract to prevent this from happening?agencies take a very dim view on this kind of behaviour

[The Wikir Man]

I dont see it as push out the Agency exercise...i see it as me trying to take iniative to try and improve my own situation.

Ive taken legal advice and have been told that my contract with the Agency does state that if i go from agency to company then there is a fee payable to the agency. However if i was to take some time off get other employment and then go back to the company then that could be a way around it.

Make sure that you understand fully what "some time off" may incur - if you are opted into the agency regulations, then it's 6 weeks (IIRC). If you aren't then you need to look at your contract, the client needs to look at their contract with the agency, and you need to take proper legal advice about whether any clause would be considered reasonable by a court.

If there is nothing in your contract, and it's in the client contract, then it's their problem, not yours. However, I don't think I've seen a contract which had less than 6 months restriction before going direct.

[king132]

I dont see it as push out the Agency exercise...i see it as me trying to take iniative to try and improve my own situation.

Ive taken legal advice and have been told that my contract with the Agency does state that if i go from agency to company then there is a fee payable to the agency. However if i was to take some time off get other employment and then go back to the company then that could be a way around it.

[The Wikir Man]

Would anyone like to comment on what the letter of intent is all about? Any traps to watch for? I've just shrugged and signed them in the past. I don't know if that's good advice or not though.

It's meant to scare you into committing to work there. However, unless there is any consideration (e.g. payment for you signing the intention), then it's legally worthless.

I should’ve given a bit more background info. I'm currently contracting through a Recruitment Company, I've found out what my rate is and I’ve negotiated with the company (my manager) for me to work for them directly through my own LTD.

OK, so you are through an agency. What does your contract say about going direct? Did you opt out (in writing) of the agency regulations before meeting the client?

More importantly, what does the client's contract between themselves and your agency say about them poaching you?