Reply to: Providing Certificates of Education

[nomadd]

"We need to see your certificates of education"

I graduated 12 years ago from Uni, but they also mean my secondary school certs!

For my current gig. (in the "vetting bit", for an Investment Bank) they wanted to see my Comp. Sci. degree and speak to my tutor.

I said I could get my mum to dig around the attic and probably find my degree; even though it would be a little bit out-of-date after 25 years...(Zilog Z80, FTW! ) Anyway, I scanned a copy and sent it to them.

As regards "speaking to my tutor", I gave them the choice of a) A Medium; b) A Ouija Board; c) His Widow. Strangely, they never did mention if they got hold of him...

[Olly]

So its really the fault of our CRB process, not the poor foreign company that are just trying to follow the clients requests for CRB vetting.

It is completely their choice not to extract the details required for CRB check onto a separate form.

[Gary_Jones]

Absolutely everything they asked for made me suspicious, but I researched it fully and also got hold of my own CRB form.

Surprisingly - Mothers maiden name is there on the CRB form as required. But post Ian Huntley, is not longer required, yet its still there on the form (DOH!).

Now for a recruiting company outside the UK, they just didnt realise this at all and want info to fill every bit of the form. They also get guidance that they cannot pass the CRB form onto the individual being checked - because it is unlawful for an individual to check himself, even through your LTD - you need to use an umbrella (not contractor umbrella, but CRB umbrella, such as Selby College).

Nightmare, but it goes to show that by assuming that people are dodgy (like I did) and not doing research but flatly refusing, COULD lose someone a contract.


(source link, from my research - http://www.crb.homeoffice.gov.uk/you...n/foi_log.aspx REFERENCE 12870).

So its really the fault of our CRB process, not the poor foreign company that are just trying to follow the clients requests for CRB vetting.

[Not So Wise]

Mother's maiden name

Most of these questions, for a permie role most of those would set my alarm bells ringing, for a contract role they are just stupid beyond beleif, but the one above would have me going to the cops pronto.

There is absolutly zero reason for ANY employer to know that particular peice of information, except to pass security for banking accounts (as it one of the most common security checks), either to access existing bank accounts or create new ones under your name

[Gary_Jones]

heh.

Maybe this is the start of a new trend then, as there are more people in the market.

god knows what secondary education has to do with contractors in their 30/40's tho.

[VectraMan]

I was asked for a degree certificate once, but the agent I spoke to yesterday asked me to put what school I attended on my c.v. Maybe he was hoping it'd turn out I went to Eton.

[Gary_Jones]

The question for resetting Internet banking passwords can easily be answered by information on copied everyday documents.

They should be asking you for the last transaction, ideally the last 3. In this example case, they also need your IB username , phone number and sort and account code (possibly).

I'm not convinced that identity theft with major banks is on the increase - in fact my bank wouldn't let me withdraw 1000 yesterday, with my card and a driving licence - they made me go home and get my passport. Most annoying - I closed my account in fury at it.

like you said tho, getting cars etc, is pretty easy, but once you've reported it as a crime, you get everything sorted, its 1 call to experian.

[stek]

Wonderful isn't it...that there are £400 a day jobs available from Indian out sourcers and there's a UK recruitment agency leech in there too.

Woo! Last time i got a sniff of an outsourced-source type role the (Indian) guy was looking to pay £120 a day for Sun IdM stuff. Even the agent was laughing...

Hopefully they're getting it now.....

[Paddy]

However on the identify theft thing I think it worth mentioning, that my specialism is data protection and although a major problem years ago - it is extremely difficult to be seriously stung by identity theft as most documents have to be originals.

Someone could go buy a car from Jack at the local garage, but it would be Jack who loses the car in the end, not me money.



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Totally disagree with that. Once a person has copies of documents; it is easy to get originals. Vehicle logbook is just one example. Also the more information some has on you, the easy it makes to answer so-called security questions. The question for resetting Internet banking passwords can easily be answered by information on copied everyday documents.

Regarding victims; if a thief buys a car in my name using a loan taken out on my name, that would cause me hassle for many years.

Identity thefts are on the increase, not decrease.

[Gary_Jones]

Oly you just said in 1 paragraph what it took me 3 to say

Regarding the outsourcing position, though it is indeed mad - its the corporate world we live in.

I think the nuts and bolts are , the company has to say it shopped for the best price , outsourcing looks like the cheapest, but ultimately you're only going to get high quality staff with the right to work in the E.U from the E.U !

It's far too much hassle for the outsourcer themselves to put people through visa applications..

The corporate world has really gone mad since the early 90's I reckon.

I've decided now to use linkedin and start just directly marketing to employers and hiring my own HR manager to set up a recruitment arm I've actually done this overseas, and won UK business :P insane.

[Olly]

I was asked for all that for a gig at Lloyds and the recruiter told me it was just for a CRB check!
Of course he was wrong (Square One).
Anyway...no harm in digging out the certs if it keeps them happy, no idea where my school ones are though!
It's presumably because they're geared up to employ Indians where all this stuff could be relevant as due diligence / visa control faff.

Wonderful isn't it...that there are £400 a day jobs available from Indian out sourcers and there's a UK recruitment agency leech in there too.

Where did it all go so wrong.

[Tarquin Farquhar]

It's not uncommon for a permanent job in continental Europe. I've never heard of it in the UK for a contract.

I don't understand why birth certificate and passport. ISTM that passport proves ID (anddob), and utility bill proves residence.

Mother's maiden name is highly questionable. I'd be tempted to give them a name different from the one I use for security questions. Come to that, Photoshop can quite simply alter the digits on the passport number on a copy. Or so I have heard.

OK as long as it's people you know and trust, from a country with a good record of data security.

[Gary_Jones]

thanks for the posts - yes I completely agree, and will not be worrying too much about the certs.

However on the identify theft thing I think it worth mentioning, that my specialism is data protection and although a major problem years ago - it is extremely difficult to be seriously stung by identity theft as most documents have to be originals.

Someone could go buy a car from Jack at the local garage, but it would be Jack who loses the car in the end, not me money.

I think its a sorry state of affairs, but when dealing with developing countries, they demand this stuff because of the amount of fraudsters out there.

I was initially really really cautious and waited until I'd fully checked the client, spoke to the client - checked companies house listings for the UK side, paid for company information etc ... I'm pleased tho that I did progress and provide the documents as its won a high quality contract with a high quality client.

It's good to be suspicious but some people can be a little overboard - "im not providing my passport or company cert of incorporation" , if they are copies its no good as ID - and is a legal requirement in most countries to form B2B relationships when providing services to a client in a specific country other than your own.

Update : said it was an unusual request and they are probably able to check with the institutions directly - response was "Apologize for asking for certificate" . Just wanted to check with the vets on here before getting obstructive

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[jmo21]

Even in all the permie jobs I ever had before contracting, I was never once asked to prove any of my qualifications.

For a contract, this is incredibly extreme.

[Paddy]

Hi All!

Off the bench and back in the UK after an 18 month break , I've now won a contract with an Indian company, providing services to a UK client ! (ah the joys of outsourcing!).

I'm on the client site now, but the procedure to get here has been pretty unique!

So far I have provided loads of sensitive information, like dob, Mother's maiden name, utility bill, birth certificate, passport, etc(at much suspicion).

In 12 years I've never been asked to provide quite so much information, but this most recent request is baffling me.

"We need to see your certificates of education"

I graduated 12 years ago from Uni, but they also mean my secondary school certs!

Has anyone ever been asked for these? I'm not lying about my qualifications, I've always assumed employers can check with the institutions themselves?

I have absolutely no idea where my uni certificates are, let alone secondary school

Think I might just say its impossible to provide them, anyone else had to provide these?

Sounds more like a permie position. In any event by providing copies of all that information you are leaving yourself open for identity theft on a big scale.

All my certificates and personal items were stolen years ago when my house was burgled ant the complete filing cabinet was taken.