Notice, Probation and Contract

[Chutney]

Update:

Told them I was off, gave a month. Director of IT said thanks for all the good work, which was of a high quality, and that if ever I need a reference to put him down.

Slightly less stressed about it now.

Back to proppa contracting

[Not So Wise]

My signing the contract in the first place is the supposed acceptance of their suitability.

That argument is moot unless they want it turn against themselves as they signed the contract with you no?

The probation clause in this was ridicules, 2 year fixed term employment with 40% "probation" period? They saw you coming a mile off

Look at your T&C's, if it specifically says that you must give 3 months notice during the probationary 9 months you are probably screwed. If it does not say this specifically (aka implies by omission) it would be down to the judge, but if he followed any form of logic he would apply the same notice period as they would have to give you

Dont believe people who say they cannot give you a bad reference. They can tell the truth by saying what you did.

While this is true, any company with half decent lawyers that have a inch of clout would stop them giving bad references because the "truth" in these types of matters is very much open to interpretation (and in many cases has become a personal matter between the ex-employee and their previous managers).

By giving a bad reference a company really gains nothing while leaving themselves open to huge financial loses if the ex-employee decides to take the matter to court.

Good references, open up the company to being sued by the ex employee's new employer's, especially if they are false (the "he's crap but nice guy so we will give him a good ref" ones)

Hence most company's refusing to give references anymore

They could make noises about suing you but I very much doubt that would happen.

Unless they are going to have large financial losses by his leaving (loss of clients/contracts, failed project's so forth), this is true. Litigation costs money and unless the payback is worth it most companies will not bother

Oh, and you'll probably piss them off for good against taking on a contractor for any future roles even though this one wasnt what we would recognise as a contract.

Not only were they not treating him as a contractor, by no definition in our industry was this a "contract", it was a fixed term employment role. Thus he, for this role, was a permie

My experience of companies that try to be "clever" in offering these "employment contracts" to get all the advantages of hiring contractor to treat them like permies and none of the disadvantages are best avoided at all costs and government should shut them down hard because they are just basically trying to avoid labour laws by hiding behind a "contract"

[d000hg]

Check what the contract actually says about probabation and report back?

[NotAllThere]

I suppose I could have just offered this link.

[RichardCranium]

According to the government advice:

Notice you must give your employer

If you have worked for your employer for one month or more, the legal minimum amount of notice you must give is one week. Normally your employment contract will set out a longer notice period. If it does, you should give this length of notice to your employer.

Which suggests you might be kippered. What does "should" mean?

But it also says:

Fixed-term contracts

A fixed-term contract automatically ends (without notice) at its end date. This is a type of dismissal. If your employer ends the contract sooner than the agreed date it would be a breach of contract. You might be able to claim damages for your outstanding pay and any benefits due in the remaining fixed period.

Did you know that? Do they? How can you use that to your benefit?

Business Link has lots of advice which is aimed at employers but is helpful. Under When an employee resigns it says:

If there is nothing on notice periods in any written agreement, the statutory notice period will apply, which, for employees with at least one month's service, is a minimum of one week. For more information, see our guide on how to issue the correct periods of notice.

Does the contract explicitly say how termination will be done at the end of the probationary period? If not, I reckon you only have to give one week's notice.

I think I may have a solution for you:

Dear Sirs,

I hereby give my notice. I will finish on dd/mm/yyyy. You will note that is the end date of the probationary period.

As the notice period of completion of the probationary period has been omitted from the contract, then the legal one week's notice applies. As a matter of good will, you will see I have provided nearly one month's notice to give you the opportunity to find a replacement and time for me to do a handover to my replacement.

(As you are no doubt aware, if I remain past the end of the probationary period you would have to pay me for the full two years if you wished to dismiss me, hence I propose that as an end date as it would be in your interests. If you wish to release me earlier than dd/mm/yyyy, I will happily comply and not expect payment for any time not worked, of course, except for your requirement to pay me one week's notice.)

Thank you for this opportunity to see if we could work together.

Yours faithfully,

Chutney.

spoon - search General for the phrase "Chutney Spoon"

You don't have to be that specific any more.

Just type 'chutney spoon' (even without quotes) into a Google.com (not even a .co.uk) search and see what is the first hit.

(I'm still working on 'forumosphere' which is a word that needs to catch on.)


Anyone need an SEO for their dodgy Plan B?

[NotAllThere]

Excellent advice from Mr Cranium there.

Nobody can be forced to work. It's down to anti-slavery laws. With an employment contract 99% of the power lies with the employee. Three months, six months notice periods benefit only the employee. But employers are either living in cloud cuckoo land, or trust in their staff not being aware of this.

And in addition to that advice, you could go see your doctor, tell him that you're having trouble sleeping, that you're finding it increasingly difficult to make simple decisions, and that when you think about going into work, you feel very anxious. Then get signed off for stress for a month...

spoon - search General for the phrase "Chutney Spoon"

[RichardCranium]

Give them the three months' notice in writing they want but tell them you will not be turning up after one month. Keep telling them, but never put it in writing. Also, go on a "work-to-rule": ALWAYS take your screen breaks. ALWAYS take your lunch break. If your start time is 9 a.m., loiter outside until 8:59 regardless of when you got there. If your leave time is 5pm, be out of the building by 17:01.

They will find your replacement sharpish and then tell you you failed the probation and show you the door without giving you any notice at all. Probably around the end of January, if not sooner.

If they do not, just stop turning up. If I remember rightly, if you are being paid monthly you will have served the legal requirement of one month's notice. Since you are not a contractor but an employee, it is employment law that counts, not the terms of that so-called "contract".



These fixed term permie roles are an utter piss-take. They are NOT contracting, they are a way for employers to pay staff poorly with no benefits, security, training or anything. It is a tulipty practice. Treat the employer with the contempt they showed you by putting a nine-furkin month probation on a 2 year fixed term job. Bastards.

[BolshieBastard]

Hi All,

Here's the situation:

2 year fixed term contract
3 month notice period
9 month probation period
8 months in

Have told them that I won't be continuing after the probation period (end of jan), have been told I must serve 3 months notice.

What are the consequences of not doing this? The probation period (lengthy in comparison to the length of the contract) should be for both me and client to decide on suitability; client saying its just for them to determine my suitability. My signing the contract in the first place is the supposed acceptance of their suitability.

I *could* perform a GM act on the day before probation up, but would rather not be driven to this.

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Chutney.

Nothing to stop you going without serving the notice.

However, I suspect you are being paid at least a month in hand for such conditions which means they could withold that month's money in lieu of you not working the notice period.

They probably will refuse to give you a reference or at the very least give a reference but state you didnt work to the terms of your contract (of employment or whatever agreement you had with them) ie the notice period. Dont believe people who say they cannot give you a bad reference. They can tell the truth by saying what you did.

They could make noises about suing you but I very much doubt that would happen.

Oh, and you'll probably piss them off for good against taking on a contractor for any future roles even though this one wasnt what we would recognise as a contract.

[NotAllThere]

... it is a million miles apart.

And often a few million quid...

[Chutney]

Hi there,

Thanks for the responses. Will check and double check the contract. It is a PAYE contract, and pays like a permie, so basically is a bit rubbish.

My understanding of probation periods was that they are a chance for both the company and the contractor to decide on whether or not it is working for them, but likeusay, I guess the contract is the definition of terms.

I assume if I am legally obliged to do 3 months, then I'm in breach if I leave before and could therefore be sued for breach, however I'm not sure given the terms I described, that much would come of this and there would likely be an out of court settlement (if they even bother).

Will talk to them and try to resolve it.

Thanks again.

Chutney.

p.s. spoon?

[northernladuk]

That doesn't look like a contract in the true sense. It looks like one of these get outs that companies seem to be using nowadays instead of taking people on as permies.

The fact it is 2 years means u cannot claim travelling expenses
The notice period will not help your IR35 status
The fact you have a probation period is a permie thing not a contractor.

I also assume that they are paying you PAYE so you have no LTD and no umbrella?

This is an employment contract not a true contractor type contract so advice from here maybe from a different angle.

I think it might be useful to start thinking about a stickie explaining the differences here. Quite a few of my friends are on one of these with large corporates and seem to think they are contractors like myself and it is a million miles apart.

[NotAllThere]

1) What does your contract say?
2) Is it a short term contract of employment?
3) Do you have a spoon?

[Chutney]

Hi All,

Here's the situation:

2 year fixed term contract
3 month notice period
9 month probation period
8 months in

Have told them that I won't be continuing after the probation period (end of jan), have been told I must serve 3 months notice.

What are the consequences of not doing this? The probation period (lengthy in comparison to the length of the contract) should be for both me and client to decide on suitability; client saying its just for them to determine my suitability. My signing the contract in the first place is the supposed acceptance of their suitability.

I *could* perform a GM act on the day before probation up, but would rather not be driven to this.

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Chutney.