Reply to: Contract with no notice period

[SalsaFever]

well, does it matter if you have 30 days notice or not at all?

You and your agent won't claim any money unless the client signed the time sheets.

Last month I witnessed similar situation here in the client company I work for. Some contractors were shown to door, without notice, based on an excuse saying 'the project is canceled'.

The client told them no more work to do, they are not required come to office anymore.

So next day nobody shown up, no timesheets signed.

The agent (which is also my agent) shut the mouth, just because he has other contractors inside and wouldn't risk to relations with a lucrative client...

So those poor fellas did not get their notice time paid so far..

Be careful: The notice period signed by the client company (7 days) are not overlapping with the notice periods signed by contractors (1 month).

So always double check if the notice periods and contract duration provided by your agent are matching with their underlying contract with the client.

Usually agents are over-promising to the contractors, whereas they are under promising the clients.

[rootsnall]

Theoretically, there is a difference if the client then changes their mind.

If the contract is immediately terminated, then you can do off as soon as possible and get a new role (theoretically, current market excepted).

If you are given 28 days notice, during that time, the client could find you work to do under the current contract and expect you to be available to do it.

That is the same reason I think you are silly signing a long contract with no notice period on your side.

[TheFaQQer]

As a result, from a contractual point of view the notice period, whether present or not, is irrelevant. Put it in, take it out. Doesn't make a blind bit of difference.

Theoretically, there is a difference if the client then changes their mind.

If the contract is immediately terminated, then you can do off as soon as possible and get a new role (theoretically, current market excepted).

If you are given 28 days notice, during that time, the client could find you work to do under the current contract and expect you to be available to do it.

[XLMonkey]

Notice periods, whether written into the contract or not, are largely irrelevant if:
- the general terms of the contract would put it outside IR35
- the payment terms are time and materials only (i.e. no milestone elements or major capital assets being supplied)

A key IR35 pointer, as most of you know, is mutuality of obligation. This means that, there is no obligation for the customer to give you work just because you have a contract with them. This applies regardless of whether you have a notice period or not.

So, imagine you have 4 weeks notice in your contract.
Customer says: Sorry, project's been cancelled, we have no work for you
You say: Understand, but I'm on four weeks notice, so you have to pay me for this time
Customer says: No, I don't. I have no work for you. The contract makes clear that I have no obligation to provide you with work. Therefore, just because I've given you 4 weeks notice doesn't mean I have to pay you for this time.
You say: Oh, bu**er. Bye then

Imagine you have no notice in your contract.
Customer says: Sorry, project's been cancelled, we have no work for you
You say: Oh, bu**er. Bye then


As a result, from a contractual point of view the notice period, whether present or not, is irrelevant. Put it in, take it out. Doesn't make a blind bit of difference.

There's a moral argument that the client may accept (that its a bit unfair to drop someone with no notice). However, you need to be clear that this is entirely at their discretion. It isn't a right that you have under the contract.

[rootsnall]

Why would it be interesting? It's no different from any other time - if you want to substitute, and have that right, and you have a suitable substitute, then you do it. I haven't wanted or needed to do it yet, but I know plenty of people who have.

I've not come across anybody doing it yet !

[TheFaQQer]

It would be interesting in the current market if you did want to bale out of somewhere. I've got a couple of out of work ex colleagues who would ( and technically could ) substitute for me.

Why would it be interesting? It's no different from any other time - if you want to substitute, and have that right, and you have a suitable substitute, then you do it. I haven't wanted or needed to do it yet, but I know plenty of people who have.

[OrangeHopper]

That's what sub clauses are for. You're not doing the job personally, are you...?

For the sack of the originator, would it be useful to indicate what those subclasses might be. Are we simply talking about the right of substitution?

[rootsnall]

That's what sub clauses are for. You're not doing the job personally, are you...?

It would be interesting in the current market if you did want to bale out of somewhere. I've got a couple of out of work ex colleagues who would ( and technically could ) substitute for me.

[sparkymark]

Does it really matter if they don't mention a notice period in the contract.

I doubt it would be difficult to get them to use 'their' notice option if you decided you want to leave. When you want to leave just start wearing bemudas to the office or ask your boss if he would like to take your relationship to the next level.

They'll soon get rid

[malvolio]

What I want to know is what if you have a heart attack or your child gets put in hospital. Can you then be sued for failing to complete the contract?

That's what sub clauses are for. You're not doing the job personally, are you...?

[OrangeHopper]

What I want to know is what if you have a heart attack or your child gets put in hospital. Can you then be sued for failing to complete the contract?

[rootsnall]

I'd speak to a lawyer.

If you have no right to give notice, and the client has no right to give you notice, and there is no end date - how do you get out of it?

I think when a contract is lacking detail or is unreasonable then I think 'what is reasonable' takes over, even if it went legal. I'd say 4 weeks notice from your side is plenty !?

[Fred Bloggs]

I'd speak to a lawyer.

If you have no right to give notice, and the client has no right to give you notice, and there is no end date - how do you get out of it?

There must be something in there that says how one party can terminate the contract, otherwise you've both just committed to working together permanently, which would be MOO....

Nope, there's no mention of any terminations at all. The only clauses are if I'm rubbish or if I don't turn up for 10 days they can sack me. It passed QDOS's tests.

[TheFaQQer]

I have recently started a new contract that has no notice period on either side, but neither does it have an end date. QDOS have approved it as IR35 compliant. I assume that the client can bin me any time he feels like it and I assume that I can walk away when ever I please?

I'd speak to a lawyer.

If you have no right to give notice, and the client has no right to give you notice, and there is no end date - how do you get out of it?

There must be something in there that says how one party can terminate the contract, otherwise you've both just committed to working together permanently, which would be MOO....

[Fred Bloggs]

I have recently started a new contract that has no notice period on either side, but neither does it have an end date. QDOS have approved it as IR35 compliant. I assume that the client can bin me any time he feels like it and I assume that I can walk away when ever I please?