Reply to: What would you have done?

[Glencky]

I wouldn't touch this with a bargepole. Whatever some people on this thread say, this is dishonest behaviour and there's not a chance I'd get involved with it. Picture the scene: you're at their client's site discussing the project. Is there any possible way you're going to get through that discussion without outright lying and colluding in others' outright lies?

Not a chance, for me. Particularly for almost no money!

[Stevie Wonder Boy]

So a previous client contacted me about a "contract" opportunity. They had won a contract to deliver a product. When they won the contract one of the conditions was that they needed to have someone with specific qualifications and experience. When they went to bid for the contract they did have someone with the qualifications, but he left the company before they won the bid.

So now they have won the bid they are in a bit of a pickle as they fail part of the conditions for the bid, not sure if they will loose the contract or there are penalties. They have asked me to basically pretend to be a contractor working for them on the project. I would spend a day with them to learn about the product they are developing, then go with them to their clients office to discuss requirements and basically pretend I am working on the project, act as a consultant. After 6 months go back and pretend to deliver the product. I'm not actually doing any work.

They said they would have paid me my standard daily rate and expenses to travel but I felt that there was a bit a fraud happening here, so I just couldn't accept it. Previous experience working with them was difficult. They are a small business but it seems like they are winning the business on a bunch of lies.

And no I haven't asked my accountant.

I would think,
Its your reputation here, if you get dragged up in court as a defendant in a fraud trial your future career will involve working at a petrol station or dumping garbage.

I would do, - fob them off.

Tell them thanks for the enquiry, but say I have other work I'm currently doing for another client

[BlasterBates]

It isn't fraud, after all they only get paid if it works, worst case would be breach of contract, I would imagine in a government dept no-one will give a monkeys until the delivery date. I find it hard to believe the company can't do this project, I suspect being a small company the MD is probably going to roll up his sleeves but wanted to send someone in to avoid embarrassment.

[northernladuk]

How much exposure will you have to the penalties when it all goes tits up?

[chineseJohn]

They need you more than you need them ....

[Cirrus]

it seems like they are winning the business on a bunch of lies.

Otherwise known as... business.

Everyone does this, from Accenture, EY, IBM etc downwards. There's no fraud and your reputation is not at risk (you can easily distance yourself from this if necessary "Actually I left the day after I visited you")

I'd do it if I thought the consultancy was a reasonable future prospect, but it doesn't sound much like that.

As it is, you'd need to tell them you want a lot more money than they are currently thinking.

[Echo1234]

There is actually no work involved on my end. They basically want me to turn up with them at the clients office and pretend I am working on the project so they can fulfill the conditions of the contract. I can charge for the daily for the travel and and being at the office. After that I disappear and go back when the project is near completion to pretend to organize acceptance testing. I assume that if it is a government contract they will be doing background checks, which means they need someone in. Like I said the do have a small very inexperienced dev team, I would consider them junior devs, so I guess they are hoping to spend as little money as they can.

I've turned down the offer. I just feel it's a big con by them and rather not get involved.

[BlasterBates]

If you are somehow involved throughout the process to oversee it I see no problem. My experience is you need the expert to come up with the overall solution, usually can be fit on a page and that is worth it's weight in gold. There is usually an architect that comes up with the solution or reviews what you're doing, the amount of work in terms of hours is not great but the impact is huge.

If that is the case I would see no problem. If you're a figurehead whose head will be on the chopping block, then no.

[simes]

Echo, does your current contract require you to be working Mon to Fri, 9-5, sort of thing?

If not, move one of those days to the weekend and on every day you're required by the new client to visit someone, it is an extra day's whack.

I am not sure a supplier over selling their ability to a client is fraud. For the most part, this is just standard business. Get the gig, sort out how to do it later. And since resource can up and walk all the time, be it permie or contractor, I am not sure how a contract could hold up if their one person of expertise decides to leave.

Push to shove, I am just thinking that maybe you can design a way to make this work for you. Want your name off the product, get it in the contract. Want a minimum time to review staged achievements, get it in the contract. Want their permie staff to Not cut corners, get it plainly stated as a condition of your involvement...

Might work.

[cojak]

They pretty much said to me if I don't do it they'll try and find someone else.

Then wish them well and walk away knowing that you've just avoided a potential world of pain for very little gain.

[BlueSharp]

If your not doing the work then who is? Has it gone off-shore to the cheapest bidder?

Personally I would see if you can get involved in a consulting capacity and oversee the build for six months and let them sell you in that capacity.

[ladymuck]

I would walk away. Sounds like a right dodgy set up.

[Echo1234]

Yeah I'm currently in a contract which ends this month, so at first I thought it would be a good opportunity.
I'm guessing they just want to do it on the cheap.

[pauldee]

Do you currently have a contract?

Why don't they just hire you properly to do the work? Do they just not want to pay for it?

[Echo1234]

From the information they told me, the contractor(me) is expected to work on the product as part of the condition on winning the bid. It is a government contract(not UK) which I guess means they have had to meet a whole bunch of conditions.

They only have a small team of young developers and with the previous experience I had working for them, I know they will cut corners, so me doing a review on their final product is probably not a good idea. I think the thing that bothers me is that they are pretty much committing fraud with their end client, trying to find someone to pretend they are working on the system. They pretty much said to me if I don't do it they'll try and find someone else.