And I stand by my original thesis, we should use people on the basis of what they can do, not what the paperwork says they might be able to do - but that will never happen i the current market!
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Don't disagree, but in 2008 we will see reqs for ITIL3 people. ITIL1 to ITIL2 was no big deal, since it stayed much the same anyway and it wasn't really up in the public consciousness as much as it is now (how many jobs have you seen that demand both ITIL and Prince, like they're parallel skills).
And I stand by my original thesis, we should use people on the basis of what they can do, not what the paperwork says they might be able to do - but that will never happen i the current market!Leave a comment:
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No Dear, that's my point - they won't make v2 quals useless - they are and will be still going strong until the powers-that-be get their act together and I have no confidence of that until Spring 2008 at the earliest. They may even be run in parallel; nobody knows. I would actually suggest that you take the exam before June 2007. A Manager's Certificate is a Manager's Certificate - they won't be rescinded and you'll be qualified. I only need to take v3 because I'm a trainer.we now get a qualification structure that will render pre-existing qualifications useless
TP's will be offering v2 - v3 upgrades but they don't know if people will take them up. And do you expect agents to be aware of such subtilties? They don't know what ITIL stands for let alone what version it's on!
Take the exam asap and don't worry about the future - that's my advice...
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No, not really. I recently saw a £3m ITIL programme fail because the fully qualified ex-Transco dipstick in charge didn't know the first thing about introducing processes to a resistant workforce, so I am not in awe of qualifications as proof you can actually do the job. Secondly, if they are completely restructuring the model then (a) why, it's supposed to be simple and logical, not a detailed methodology and (b) a lot of money will be spent "upgrading" from one system to the next to no real benefit.
I've been making IT departments work for around 25 years now, before ITIL started. When it came out it was a realistic and comprehensive codification of how the real world should work. Over the last 5 years, it's moved from best practice to "Do it this way or your company will fail". It was never intended to be a regimented, defined process (bearing in mind I've worked with some of the people who wrote the original), it was supposed to be a way to identify the weak points in your organisation against a given standard.
It's no different with PM work, come to that. Prince qualifications are now so devalued - you can get Practitioner in a week these days - many people are also asking for PMI to prove you know what you are talking about. On the other hand, I prefer to take on people who have actually delivered the end product a few times, regardless of how they actually did it. But then, what do I know...Leave a comment:
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Oh good. So on top of the existing population of manager-qualified people who know nothing of Service Management, we now get a qualification structure that will render pre-existing qualifications useless, add zero value in terms of delivering IT services and take the practicailities even further away from the people that have to sit at a desk and make it happen.
I think I'll save my £5k exam fees for something more relevant...Leave a comment:
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Cheaper??? What do you think?Originally posted by Angela_D
I'm going to have to buy all 5 book from day 1 (mind you I've got all the old ones but I've collected them over the years).
No one knows how much they're going to cost (honest...
) but the old ones are £65 a pop.
I'm going to be using my itSMF discount a lot next year...Last edited by cojak; 23 November 2006, 21:15.Leave a comment:
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Not true.Originally posted by stacks
It will probably take up to a year for the exams to turn up. The latest date for the v3 launch is 'Spring 07'. No-one (including most of the TP's) will get their hands on the copy of the books before then. Even if they knew the structure of the new exams it would take them weeks to assimilate the knowledge and write new Foundation and Manager's Cert courses. The content hasn't altered but it's been added to and radically restructured.
No, the really interesting ingredient is the fact that the OGC (ITIL owners) has made the APMG the accreditation body for ITIL exams. ISEB and ISEB licences expire mid 2007. You can imagine what they think about it all...
APMG are guys that accredit Prince2 - they know feck all about ITIL, so God knows what they're doing about the reorganising of v3 exams. (Oh and you can expect to have to retake Manager's Certs every 5 years as soon as they can get away with it...).
Every TP I've spoken to knows absolutely nothing about how the courses and exams are going to be structured - and believe me they need to know now in order to be ready for a Spring time launch. Needless to say they're all bricking it. Except for Fox IT, Pick Roccade and HP, allegedly, as these are the only one's that the APMG cares about (again, allegedly
).
ITIL by the way will break down into 5 interlinking core books: Strategy, Design, Transition, Operations and Continual Service Improvement. The old Service Support and Delivery is spread amongst them but a lot of them sits in Ops.
The gossip you get at these conferences...
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Originally posted by cojak
Do tell us more ......
Major changes ? Cheaper / different exam paths ?Leave a comment:
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with V3 on the horizon it sounds like theres no point in doing anything until thats all sorted out as I might as well be bang up to date.
Any idea when the course & exams will be available?Leave a comment:
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Sorry, no. You might try phone the Training Provider you took it with and asking if they could give you a note.
Otherwise I'd just book a distance learning course and take it that way (you have to go to a company that runs the exam software).Leave a comment:
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Well I appreciate the vote of confidence, but sadly you need the paperwork no matter how good you are in the real world (and I speak as someone who watched a major ITIL programme go to ratchet because I had to follow the lead of a fully qualified twerp who knew sod all about ITSM...). ITIL3 Managers is on the horizon but do you know of a way to skip the Foundation Course requirement though? Did mine so long ago I've lost all trace of it.Originally posted by cojakHello Chaps,
I intend staying ahead of the wave - there are others who will sink (Malvolio is of course exempt from this as he's that good he doesn't need quals... )Leave a comment:
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Hello Chaps,
Sorry for the delay - I've been strutting my stuff at the itSMF conference for the last 3 days. I need the rest of the week to give my liver a break...
QA is good, Fox IT is the ITIL specialist - but I'll be taking my next lot of Managers training for v3 with Sysop. They have a high success rate and at one point used to allow you to take at least one re-sit for free (shows their confidence in getting you through the course the first time).
I don't really look at the cheapest - I look at how likely they'll me through the exam sucessfully.
Oh and yes - there are interesting times ahead for ITIL (good) and training qualifications (not so good if you a Training Provider).
I intend staying ahead of the wave - there are others who will sink (Malvolio is of course exempt from this as he's that good he doesn't need quals... )
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