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Previously on "State of the Market"

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  • SussexSeagull
    replied
    Originally posted by escapeUK View Post

    From the sound of it you need to use your off time to learn all the modern ways of testing.
    There isn't really a modern way of testing. The Agile manifesto was agreed in 2001 and Agile was around before that.

    Putting aside the full on testing tools, Selenium, etc., to one side I have been using SQL for a couple of decades and whenever I need to use something new to me like, for example, Postman a couple of years back, someone showed it to me and away I went. As I said I did fall over on one question but that was to do with being blindsided by something not on the job description, not being stuck in the early part of the century.

    Next time round I will probably be interviewed by someone who values experience and it will be a different conversation. You can't win them all.

    Leave a comment:


  • Paracelsus
    replied
    https://jobserve.com/gb/en/find-jobs...0DC17584CC15A/

    £200pd, but not asking for a lot - just backend, frontend, SQL and Azure.

    Leave a comment:


  • BigDataPro
    replied
    Originally posted by SchumiStars View Post
    Had a phone call from an agent today, honestly think they are taking the Michael.

    5 days onsite, Elephant and Castle (horrible!), Active SC, £190 per day inside. After tax, travelling expenses and lunch, £80pd.

    Even though, I am out of contract, that was ridiculous.
    I think I have said it before. These type of ads are deliberately designed to discourage anyone local from applying. You know why!

    Leave a comment:


  • SchumiStars
    replied
    Had a phone call from an agent today, honestly think they are taking the Michael.

    5 days onsite, Elephant and Castle (horrible!), Active SC, £190 per day inside. After tax, travelling expenses and lunch, £80pd.

    Even though, I am out of contract, that was ridiculous.

    Leave a comment:


  • hungry_hog
    replied
    I’m not sure age itself is the factor, as much as a client assuming that someone with 20 year’s experience will want a much higher rate

    Place I was at before was very keen on Power BI and Python. These are skills easily picked up at Uni by any STEM student, so in effect we are competing with people who are happy to work for 35k. A lot of the domain knowledge can be learnt on the job.

    Place was full of recent grads and people over 40 were rare. This was a large blue blood UK asset manager, not some trendy start up!

    Originally posted by SussexSeagull View Post

    I don't put my DOB but my age can be roughly worked out from my experience. The challenge for me is a lot of clients want experience and are perfectly aware you won't be there in 6 months or a years time so age isn't a problem.

    I had an interview with two people who were probably in their early 30s last week. To be fair I did fall over a question so can understand why I didn't get it but the feedback was worded that my testing knowledge wasn't 'modern enough', which certain hints that they thought any lack of knowledge on my part was caused by age as opposed to just being a lack of knowledge caused by a lack of knowledge.

    Leave a comment:


  • escapeUK
    replied
    Originally posted by sspt27 View Post
    Like another poster here, I'm wondering whether I'm a resting contractor, or an (involuntarily) retired contractor.
    It's so important to use LinkedIn and have a network of contacts that you can reach out to and say "I'm available, if you know of any opportunities"

    Failing that. We live in the best time ever to earn money on the side. Like many things this is much better in the US, that if you deliver someone's groceries they will tip generously, often almost doubling your wages. In the UK lucky to get a quid tip. I haven't done this myself, but I enjoy watching people on Youtube do it. I find it quite relaxing for some reason.

    Originally posted by SussexSeagull View Post

    The fact is the retirement age was raised, partially to allow people to work longer and build up a larger pension pot. If people are being turned down for permanent jobs due to age then that is a real problem.
    No, hitting the retirement age was not stopping anyone from continuing if they so wished. Raising the age was a cynical way to save money, so they could spend on their own pet causes. Government would love it if people died before claiming any pension.

    From the sound of it you need to use your off time to learn all the modern ways of testing.

    Leave a comment:


  • eek
    replied
    Originally posted by SussexSeagull View Post

    I am not convinced there is a niche you can occupy that will let you escape the current storm other than being in a contract and holding on to it!
    ^^^

    The problem with a niche is that unless someone needs that skillset you are going to be sat waiting for a call.

    Leave a comment:


  • SussexSeagull
    replied
    Originally posted by BigDataPro View Post

    I used to be in Testing domain. Both Automation and Manual. Selenium, Cucumber, JUnit, NUnit the lot. Seeing the 'demand' for testers, I 'prepared' my CV, moved on to Data Domain. It was Definitely better but looks like it's going to get the same fate as testing. One thing I am unable to make up for, is my age and grey hair
    I am not convinced there is a niche you can occupy that will let you escape the current storm other than being in a contract and holding on to it!

    Leave a comment:


  • Smartie
    replied
    There might be a hint of green shoots - the latest PMI index shows improvements in both manufacturing and services. That's usually a sign of businesses improving confidence and investment.

    Leave a comment:


  • BigDataPro
    replied
    Originally posted by SussexSeagull View Post

    I don't put my DOB but my age can be roughly worked out from my experience. The challenge for me is a lot of clients want experience and are perfectly aware you won't be there in 6 months or a years time so age isn't a problem.

    I had an interview with two people who were probably in their early 30s last week. To be fair I did fall over a question so can understand why I didn't get it but the feedback was worded that my testing knowledge wasn't 'modern enough', which certain hints that they thought any lack of knowledge on my part was caused by age as opposed to just being a lack of knowledge caused by a lack of knowledge.
    I used to be in Testing domain. Both Automation and Manual. Selenium, Cucumber, JUnit, NUnit the lot. Seeing the 'demand' for testers, I 'prepared' my CV, moved on to Data Domain. It was Definitely better but looks like it's going to get the same fate as testing. One thing I am unable to make up for, is my age and grey hair
    Last edited by BigDataPro; Yesterday, 12:22.

    Leave a comment:


  • SussexSeagull
    replied
    Originally posted by Unix View Post

    Don't put your DOB on your CV.
    I don't put my DOB but my age can be roughly worked out from my experience. The challenge for me is a lot of clients want experience and are perfectly aware you won't be there in 6 months or a years time so age isn't a problem.

    I had an interview with two people who were probably in their early 30s last week. To be fair I did fall over a question so can understand why I didn't get it but the feedback was worded that my testing knowledge wasn't 'modern enough', which certain hints that they thought any lack of knowledge on my part was caused by age as opposed to just being a lack of knowledge caused by a lack of knowledge.

    Leave a comment:


  • SussexSeagull
    replied
    Originally posted by Alf W View Post
    I don’t think any of this is down to ageism in the contracting sector anyway. It certainly is in the perm sector and it’s almost understandable although being in the 55+ bracket I don’t agree with it but I understand it.

    its pure and simple supply and demand which the low number of contracts even falsely advertised and the crap rates tell you. Lots of older perms made or taken redundancy are finding out contracting is not as easy as it looked from the other side of the fence.

    Question is, am I a retired contractor or an out of work contractor? One thing I’m not is a desperate contractor.
    The fact is the retirement age was raised, partially to allow people to work longer and build up a larger pension pot. If people are being turned down for permanent jobs due to age then that is a real problem.

    Leave a comment:


  • sspt27
    replied
    Originally posted by escapeUK View Post
    Isn't it better to be honest, and those that actually are wanting someone more experienced can get in touch?
    Well, yes, it would be. If any "market adjustment" on the (my) supply side actually worked. I'm not getting any contact from anyone. Apart from occasional robo-recruiters, whose "AI"-written spiel suggests that they're desperate to put me forward for a role which... actually... I couldn't do at all. Even in a hot market, no interviewer would look twice at my CV for those roles. I file those under TFS for Totally... Stupid.

    So, my "market adjustments":
    • Lower rate? Nope, I haven't been fussy about the rate since c. February. I'd actually prefer it if I could accept a lower rate for a while. But that's not how it seems to be working. Instead, we're getting 1/10th of the contracts, with high rates but insanely specific skills requirements.
    • Perm? Tried applying for those, no dice.
    • Perm even at a lower salary/more junior role than I had 5 years ago? Still no dice.
    • Any combination of these, in a wider area, perhaps even with weekly commuting (if it's contract, perm isn't worth it)? Nope, still nothing.
    Like another poster here, I'm wondering whether I'm a resting contractor, or an (involuntarily) retired contractor.


    Leave a comment:


  • sspt27
    replied
    Originally posted by SchumiStars View Post
    Talked to a recruiter today about the state of the .market and he was equally perplexed of the given situation.

    He came back with the fact that he was running out of excuses since last Oct.

    1. Half term
    2. Christmas
    3. New year
    4. New Financial year
    5. Summer

    ....
    ​​​​All of these would end and the market would bounce back. However currently 12mths in and I have not seen any upswing at all.
    ​​​​​​
    Well, that's good intelligence, good to know thanks. That your recruiter is sort of tearing his hair out as well. I know those seasonal variations by heart - I know that if I'm still out of work in mid/late November, that'll probably be it until January. And early/mid/late April (for the new budgets to drip through the manglement processes) was always a bounce). Similarly, when the date crept towards the end of June this year and I still had nothing, I went on a big downer. Because I know that even in a "normal" market, July and August are dead.

    It is SO weird.

    Leave a comment:


  • dsc
    replied
    Originally posted by SussexSeagull View Post

    Always was the case that the Summer school holidays and Christmas were quiet but you used to get a bounce in October, New Year and financial New Year. They don't seem to happen anymore.
    Not with high interest rates they don't, that is the very reason market is tulipe and will be for quite some time.

    Leave a comment:

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