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Previously on "State of the Market"

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  • Bluenose
    replied
    that pandemic year graph, jayzuz.

    Leave a comment:


  • sreed
    replied
    Originally posted by Fraidycat View Post

    The contract market can stay depressed longer than we can stay solvent (and sane)

    Demand will return, at some point, every company that has a freeze will lift at same time and will want to hire contractors all at the same time.

    We don't know when, but not looking like this year. Sometime in 2025 i would guess.
    This is from the latest recruitment report (March 2024) which shows how the perm and temp hiring indices are moving, pretty much tracking each other.

    With respect to pay growth it’s the same story, lowest since 2020 for temp billings and lowest in 3 years for perm.

    There’s definitely a general downturn in hiring, affecting demand for all types of roles. As per the blurb, the sharpest fall in permie vacancies was in the ‘IT and computing’ sector and regionally in the south of England. That will probably be mirrored in temp roles and contracts as well.

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    Leave a comment:


  • Fraidycat
    replied
    Originally posted by ResistanceFighter View Post
    Things need to change though right? The work itself didn't just fall off a cliff, it will need doing eventually
    The contract market can stay depressed longer than we can stay solvent (and sane)

    Demand will return, at some point, every company that has a freeze will lift at same time and will want to hire contractors all at the same time.

    We don't know when, but not looking like this year. Sometime in 2025 i would guess.


    Leave a comment:


  • Snooky
    replied
    Originally posted by Fraidycat View Post

    Daily mail headline from today (DM has a paywall now, so i wont link it):
    Are these the laziest WFH staff in Britain? HMRC civil servants are gardening, taking the dog for a walk and playing video games while 'at work'
    It's almost as disgraceful as when I worked in offices full time - staff would regularly go out for a fag break, stand and chat by a coffee machine, make personal phone calls, even go for a walk at lunchtime! Nobody said anything, but I knew those lazy WFO staff couldn't be getting any actual work done in the hours between those brief leisure activities.

    Leave a comment:


  • sreed
    replied
    Originally posted by ResistanceFighter View Post
    Getting to the end of April, and been looking since end of November last year.

    had only a handful of calls, 2 interviews, 1 turned into an offer but I turned it down as the rate was just insulting.

    What a dramatic change from being back to back with no gaps for the 10+ years previous.

    Things need to change though right? The work itself didn't just fall off a cliff, it will need doing eventually
    Perhaps. But it could be done with less people, different people, in a different way or somewhere else.

    Things always evolve - couple of years of Covid turbocharged a huge amount of change in working practices, quickly followed by rapid development in end user facing AI tools, the application of which is still in very early stages.

    The next 10 years will probably look different from the last 10, there’ll be winners and losers from the changes. Even so, the need for contractors won’t disappear, companies will always need flexible resources and experts who can hit the ground running, finish a task and then move on out.
    Last edited by sreed; 19 April 2024, 13:10.

    Leave a comment:


  • tsmith
    replied
    Originally posted by Fraidycat View Post

    IT has been in slump for 20 months now, started middle of 2022. What industry is that linked in thread about, have they only started to really feel it now?

    Thats to be expected from the 18 month delay from interest rates hikes to really hit the economy, but the IT contract market saw the effect after just 6 months.

    Although 18 months ago interest rates were only 3%, so thats what the wider economy is feeling at the moment, just 3% interest rates, it might still require another six to nine months before the economy feels the full effect of 5% interest rates.
    Originally posted by ResistanceFighter View Post
    Getting to the end of April, and been looking since end of November last year.

    had only a handful of calls, 2 interviews, 1 turned into an offer but I turned it down as the rate was just insulting.

    What a dramatic change from being back to back with no gaps for the 10+ years previous.

    Things need to change though right? The work itself didn't just fall off a cliff, it will need doing eventually
    Dont see UK interest rates really making that much difference in the UK. Maybe in the USA which is where most of the innovation happens in IT.

    Its the end of an era I believe. The amount of bespoke IT work the vast majority of companies need doing in house has been dropping for a good while and the number of candidates has exploded and theres about to be 3 generations of people in the industry - where back in the day it was one maybe 2 generations

    With a supply and demand imbalance companies will just hire cheap perm or lower day rates to the point there wont be much point being a contractor. Which is already happening
    • Generation X (circa 1965 to 1980)
    • Millennial Generation (circa 1981 to 1996)
    • Generation Z (circa 1997 to 2012)
    SAAS industry growth is insane
    "Since 2015, the SaaS industry grew from $31.4 billion to an estimated $1617.1 billion in 2022. That equates to over 5x growth in only seven years."

    But again I believe that wont generate significant enough demand for a return to the state of the market in the UK as before with lots of contractors required.

    Implementing big bespoke SAAS eg Salesforce will be done in the main cheap offshore locations if possible - with maybe a few onsite guys as contractors

    Leave a comment:


  • dsc
    replied
    Originally posted by ResistanceFighter View Post
    [...]Things need to change though right? The work itself didn't just fall off a cliff, it will need doing eventually
    Sure but you don't need people on £600+ doing it, if you have a desperate work force you can drive the rates super low.

    Leave a comment:


  • ResistanceFighter
    replied
    Getting to the end of April, and been looking since end of November last year.

    had only a handful of calls, 2 interviews, 1 turned into an offer but I turned it down as the rate was just insulting.

    What a dramatic change from being back to back with no gaps for the 10+ years previous.

    Things need to change though right? The work itself didn't just fall off a cliff, it will need doing eventually

    Leave a comment:


  • BritishLad88
    replied
    Originally posted by Fraidycat View Post

    Daily mail headline from today (DM has a paywall now, so i wont link it):
    Are these the laziest WFH staff in Britain? HMRC civil servants are gardening, taking the dog for a walk and playing video games while 'at work'
    it's the new norm. times have changed. don't see what's the fuss all about.

    Leave a comment:


  • WTFH
    replied
    Originally posted by Unix View Post

    Of course DM "Journalists" are prime examples of productive, efficient and industrious workers. tulipting on a bit of paper and faxing it to head office every day
    You left out the bit about non-dom/offshore/trust status of the ownership of that paper.

    Leave a comment:


  • Unix
    replied
    Originally posted by Fraidycat View Post

    Daily mail headline from today (DM has a paywall now, so i wont link it):
    Are these the laziest WFH staff in Britain? HMRC civil servants are gardening, taking the dog for a walk and playing video games while 'at work'
    Of course DM "Journalists" are prime examples of productive, efficient and industrious workers. tulipting on a bit of paper and faxing it to head office every day

    Leave a comment:


  • sreed
    replied
    Originally posted by Fraidycat View Post

    Daily mail headline from today (DM has a paywall now, so i wont link it):
    Are these the laziest WFH staff in Britain? HMRC civil servants are gardening, taking the dog for a walk and playing video games while 'at work'
    Lol. If you included a leisurely brunch (at home), laundry and a trip to the gym, that sounds like my other half and I at home, working hard in FS

    Leave a comment:


  • northernladuk
    replied
    Originally posted by Fraidycat View Post

    Daily mail headline from today (DM has a paywall now, so i wont link it):
    Are these the laziest WFH staff in Britain? HMRC civil servants are gardening, taking the dog for a walk and playing video games while 'at work'
    I saw that. I was outraged and then realised I'd done all of those today

    Leave a comment:


  • edison
    replied
    Originally posted by Fraidycat View Post


    This years bounce bounced lasted just a couple of weeks. Jobserve went toward the high 46,000, but currently around 32,000.

    If I recall correctly, last years bounces lasted more than a month.

    I think market sentiment changed a week or two ago as it became clear that interest rate cuts have been delayed by many months.
    It's already down to 30,000 since you posted this!

    Perm roles seem to have picked up a bit in the last few weeks but I've never seen the market so bad for contracting in my niches. There seems to be no respite on that front.

    Leave a comment:


  • Fraidycat
    replied
    Originally posted by SussexSeagull View Post

    As every other branch of government is creaking at the moment it is probably fair to imagine that the HMRC are the same.
    Daily mail headline from today (DM has a paywall now, so i wont link it):
    Are these the laziest WFH staff in Britain? HMRC civil servants are gardening, taking the dog for a walk and playing video games while 'at work'

    Leave a comment:

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