Contracting for EU company - visiting US

[BlasterBates]

The OP can tell them what they like. That's missing the point entirely. The OP was perfectly justified in asking this question and, despite the minimal risk of getting caught (I think I said quite clearly that there's a degree of common sense here and also a small risk of getting caught), the consequences are significant. Also, HR/contracts at the client will be absolutely clueless about the terms of the VWP; they may make the OP feel good that a bunch of people have done it before, but consultancy work isn't allowed, so it's better the OP knows the boundaries in advance.

You're right there is a theoretical risk, but personally, I think there's a much greater risk of being in a plane crash on the way over.

Nothing is risk free I think you need though to be pragmatic, the alternative would be to turn the contract down or arrange to see a very expensive lawyer that wll charge several hundred dollars and tell you there is a theoretical risk.

My advice is go ahead and not worry. I did read about the consequences and the worst you would fear would be a travel ban for 5 years.

[jamesbrown]

Lets not go overboard. He's attending business meetings for a couple of weeks I doubt very much that the border guards will launch an intensive investigation into whether his "meetings" result in productive work, on the off chance that he says "something useful" in one of the meetings. I think they have other things to do than sit there having philosophcal discussions about whether the OP's business discussion could be construed to be "productive work". They're not bored posters on Contractor UK .

When the OP goes over he just tells them he's over there for a series of meetings about the work he'll be carrying out in the UK.

The OP can tell them what they like. That's missing the point entirely. The OP was perfectly justified in asking this question and, despite the minimal risk of getting caught (I think I said quite clearly that there's a degree of common sense here and also a small risk of getting caught), the consequences are significant. Also, HR/contracts at the client will be absolutely clueless about the terms of the VWP; they may make the OP feel good that a bunch of people have done it before, but consultancy work isn't allowed, so it's better the OP knows the boundaries in advance.

[BlasterBates]

You can't tell the OP what they'll be doing (), and that document doesn't really describe it (it's just the usual official advice). I agree that gathering requirements alone isn't productive work, but productive work does include consultancy work and actual product design, so this isn't clear-cut, based on the info provided. For example, if they're sitting at a desk and working-up designs on a computer, that is productive work. Only the OP can know, really, and I'd suggest that they seek advice from a professional rather than an internet forum on the specifics of what constitutes productive work. They may be able to adapt what they're doing, in order to comply. Obviously there's a degree of common sense about this too, but it's important not to do anything that is obviously disallowed under the VWP, so better that the OP knows the boundaries in advance...

Lets not go overboard. He's attending business meetings for a couple of weeks I doubt very much that the border guards will launch an intensive investigation into whether his "meetings" result in productive work, on the off chance that he says "something useful" in one of the meetings. I think they have other things to do than sit there having philosophcal discussions about whether the OP's business discussion could be construed to be "productive work". They're not bored posters on Contractor UK .

When the OP goes over he just tells them he's over there for a series of meetings about the work he'll be carrying out in the UK.

[SayItWrite]

Thanks all

I'll be in meetings, attending workshops and briefings and working with design colleagues on a new product.

All the information will come back with me to inform the work I do remotely for them in the UK.

Previous contractors working in a similar capacity have used ESTA with no issue, so I'll follow the same route

[Taita]

You can't tell the OP what they'll be doing (), and that document doesn't really describe it (it's just the usual official advice). I agree that gathering requirements alone isn't productive work, but productive work does include consultancy work and actual product design, so this isn't clear-cut, based on the info provided. For example, if they're sitting at a desk and working-up designs on a computer, that is productive work. Only the OP can know, really, and I'd suggest that they seek advice from a professional rather than an internet forum on the specifics of what constitutes productive work. They may be able to adapt what they're doing, in order to comply. Obviously there's a degree of common sense about this too, but it's important not to do anything that is obviously disallowed under the VWP, so better that the OP knows the boundaries in advance...

As somebody already said you can't beat telling the truth at the border (unless you are a trained spy or well versed in the ways of illegal immigration/border crossings).

International Telco is bound to be sending staff abroad routinely. Ask the travel office or HR...yes, yes, I know I am a contractor but I can be disarmingly polite too. A friendly smile helps.

[jamesbrown]

I don't see gathering information as something that would break the guidelines.

What they mean by productive work is working in a factory producing widgets or providing a service eg booking a US citizen's flight and then charging for it.

You're not producing anything you're simply gathering information to then "produce" in the UK, i.e. you won't be delivering anything when you're over there, that happens after you've returned to the UK.

Anway this document describes it:

http://travel.state.gov/content/dam/...2014 flier.pdf

You can't tell the OP what they'll be doing (), and that document doesn't really describe it (it's just the usual official advice). I agree that gathering requirements alone isn't productive work, but productive work does include consultancy work and actual product design, so this isn't clear-cut, based on the info provided. For example, if they're sitting at a desk and working-up designs on a computer, that is productive work. Only the OP can know, really, and I'd suggest that they seek advice from a professional rather than an internet forum on the specifics of what constitutes productive work. They may be able to adapt what they're doing, in order to comply. Obviously there's a degree of common sense about this too, but it's important not to do anything that is obviously disallowed under the VWP, so better that the OP knows the boundaries in advance...

[BlasterBates]

Oh dear. Looks like I may be doing productive work after all. I will be contributing to and gathering information for branding and tone of voice guidelines to complete back in the UK.

I'll give the company a call. Apparently, they've had UK citizens over there in a similar capacity, so I guess I should just follow their lead.

I don't see gathering information as something that would break the guidelines.

What they mean by productive work is working in a factory producing widgets or providing a service eg booking a US citizen's flight and then charging for it.

You're not producing anything you're simply gathering information to then "produce" in the UK, i.e. you won't be delivering anything when you're over there, that happens after you've returned to the UK.

Anway this document describes it:

http://travel.state.gov/content/dam/...2014 flier.pdf

[jamesbrown]

Oh dear. Looks like I may be doing productive work after all. I will be contributing to and gathering information for branding and tone of voice guidelines to complete back in the UK.

I'll give the company a call. Apparently, they've had UK citizens over there in a similar capacity, so I guess I should just follow their lead.

Yeah. It's really an area where you could do with some professional advice. I'm sure many people choose to push the boundaries and even break them unambiguously, without consequences (afterall, the only policing is at the border, and you're unlikely to be questioned, in detail, unless you raise red flags). However, as I said, I would strongly recommend against this, because there are real consequences; bottom line, if you decide to risk it (and I wouldn't recommend it), always tell the complete truth to border staff when questioned, because being sent back is not the worst that can happen.

[SayItWrite]

Debatable, but it will hinge on whether the work you're doing is "productive" work. If you're discussing ideas and canvassing opinions for product designs with colleagues in the US (e.g. as part of a series of meetings), this would be fine. However, if you're providing consultancy services w/r to product design, that would not be OK; for example, if you're sitting at a desk and actively producing designs with colleagues while there, that would not be OK. By all means, seek professional advice on the specifics of what might constitute "productive work" w/r to your situation, but I'd suggest that you don't push the boundaries on this, because you may be questioned upon entry and the consequences of not meeting the conditions of the VWP are quite serious (i.e. no possibility of entry without a visa in future).

Oh dear. Looks like I may be doing productive work after all. I will be contributing to and gathering information for branding and tone of voice guidelines to complete back in the UK.

I'll give the company a call. Apparently, they've had UK citizens over there in a similar capacity, so I guess I should just follow their lead.

[jamesbrown]

Hi all

First post - be nice :-)

So I'm a limited company, about to start 3 month contract for a global telco company headquartered in the EU.

Most of my time will be spent working at home/in the UK office, but I may have to spend time in the US office for a couple of periods of the contract - 2 periods of 3 weeks.

I'm pretty certain that there will be no tax implications, and I'm not registered for VAT (I'll never earn the UK annual threshold), but will there be visa implications?

Everything I've read seems to indicate I'm eligible for the Visa Waiver Programme, but I'm still unsure if working with colleagues on product design is classed as business or employment.

Any help gratefully received.

Debatable, but it will hinge on whether the work you're doing is "productive" work. If you're discussing ideas and canvassing opinions for product designs with colleagues in the US (e.g. as part of a series of meetings), this would be fine. However, if you're providing consultancy services w/r to product design, that would not be OK; for example, if you're sitting at a desk and actively producing designs with colleagues while there, that would not be OK. By all means, seek professional advice on the specifics of what might constitute "productive work" w/r to your situation, but I'd suggest that you don't push the boundaries on this, because you may be questioned upon entry and the consequences of not meeting the conditions of the VWP are quite serious (i.e. no possibility of entry without a visa in future).

[SayItWrite]

Hi all

First post - be nice :-)

So I'm a limited company, about to start 3 month contract for a global telco company headquartered in the EU.

Most of my time will be spent working at home/in the UK office, but I may have to spend time in the US office for a couple of periods of the contract - 2 periods of 3 weeks.

I'm pretty certain that there will be no tax implications, and I'm not registered for VAT (I'll never earn the UK annual threshold), but will there be visa implications?

Everything I've read seems to indicate I'm eligible for the Visa Waiver Programme, but I'm still unsure if working with colleagues on product design is classed as business or employment.

Any help gratefully received.