Reply to: Oh who guessed it the remainers made it up!

[vetran]

Quoting a 7 year old article

Well that would be when the change happened. Its called News when its new and history when its old. In between one can reference old articles.

[Eirikur]

OH Aussie barmaids I remember lusting after those.

It seems we changed the immigration rules and the wages dropped in real terms compared to home.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25401024

Quoting a 7 year old article

[vetran]

About a year after I emigrated, I went into a Swiss bar in a non-descript fairly industrial town - the barmaid was from Melbourne... They get everywhere!

OH Aussie barmaids I remember lusting after those.

It seems we changed the immigration rules and the wages dropped in real terms compared to home.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25401024

Now they are abandoning the UK in their thousands. The number of Australian working visas issued by the Home Office has more than halved since 2006 to fewer than 15,000, while the ONS reported a drop of almost 10,000 Australians resident in the UK in the year between 2011-12.

The visa regime Doyle describes stems from government changes to the system in 2011 which abolished the general visa category under which many Australians had applied, introduced a cap of 20,700 on the number who could be sponsored by UK employers, and permitted a further 1,000 only of those with "exceptional talent".

"As the Australian dollar is now worth much more, Aussies don't have to work here so much to travel Europe for a summer, after which it's much more tempting to return home where they can easily be paid twice as much for doing the same work."

[NotAllThere]

About a year after I emigrated, I went into a Swiss bar in a non-descript fairly industrial town - the barmaid was from Melbourne... They get everywhere!

[Mordac]

Look it seems the Pandemic & Brexit have limited immigration, there is a shortage of bar staff and guess what the pay has gone up

Back in my youth (pre-EU freedom of movement) it was the Aussies and Kiwis coming over on 2 year visas which kept the hospitality industry going. I don't know whether the visas have been stopped, or if the Aussies can't get the jobs they used to get because the Europeans got them first, so they stopped coming over here. Whatever the answer, we should be encouraging Antipodeans back. Our youth should have the same opportunities to try it on with an Aussie barmaid.

[vetran]

that's one example. And there will always be outlier cases.

In any case....
Tax subsidies for lower wages are wrong. Maybe a much higher minimum wage is the answer. Either way it's not immigration that is the root cause, it's a skewed system.
Can't even blame the employers. They are just doing what is right for the company.

I am all for controlled immigration. If we can get brilliant doctors, professors, businessmen (even aTw) and scientists from other countries it will improve the UK for all. We can send ours over there as well.

Getting cheap waiters, cleaners and baristas to undercut the existing ones who will be replaced by apps, kiosks or automation and then need benefits in a decade doesn't look so clever.

Look it seems the Pandemic & Brexit have limited immigration, there is a shortage of bar staff and guess what the pay has gone up

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...age-staff.html

Rivals, both small and large, reckon they’ll be looking pretty hard, since almost all of them are also desperately seeking new staff.

In London and the South East, where the shortage is most acute, the going rate for waiters has already risen from around £11 to almost £15 an hour, plus tips, while some kitchen staff are commanding salaries a third higher than before Covid struck.

‘Wages are going through the roof,’ James Chiavarini, owner of Il Portico, London’s oldest family restaurant, says. ‘I have chefs who usually would be on about £35k and they are now saying, “We want 50”.

‘Getting new people is impossible. I can’t hire new staff to open a place that I am launching in June. You advertise and they arrange to come for an interview, but a day or two later they get in touch and say: “Sorry, I’ve already got a job.”’

lets hope this continues elsewhere and minimum wage is a distant memory.

[Lance]

Have a search for Gate Gourmet. Here established workers of Indian heritage were supplanted by cheaper eastern European labour. The ladies were Earning £10 an hour plus overtime, their replacements were earning the minimum wage at the time £8.

So their wages were 20% lower and thanks to Tony & Gordon, we will subsidise that with in work benefits.

So wages were lowered and of course the tax take falls.

How does the lower wage with subsidies effectively increase GDP per capita rather than dilute it?

You know that the point the average person pays more tax than they cost is about £30k, the closer we can get people to earning that the less others have to subsidise them.

The more available labour there is the lower the average wage will be.

that's one example. And there will always be outlier cases.

In any case....
Tax subsidies for lower wages are wrong. Maybe a much higher minimum wage is the answer. Either way it's not immigration that is the root cause, it's a skewed system.
Can't even blame the employers. They are just doing what is right for the company.

[vetran]

It's a bad assumption to think that immigration/jobs is a zero sum game. It's not. More immigrants is more people to do work, but also boosts the economy so there are more jobs.
To be frightened of immigrants taking all the jobs is ignorance and a bit of racism (your competing with natives for the jobs already so why does the fact that some are immigrants make any difference?). Ignorance and racism go hand in hand.

Have a search for Gate Gourmet. Here established workers of Indian heritage were supplanted by cheaper eastern European labour. The ladies were Earning £10 an hour plus overtime, their replacements were earning the minimum wage at the time £8.

So their wages were 20% lower and thanks to Tony & Gordon, we will subsidise that with in work benefits.

So wages were lowered and of course the tax take falls.

How does the lower wage with subsidies effectively increase GDP per capita rather than dilute it?

You know that the point the average person pays more tax than they cost is about £30k, the closer we can get people to earning that the less others have to subsidise them.

The more available labour there is the lower the average wage will be.

[vetran]

What you posted there supports what I say, you do realise that don't you? That you are providing evidence against your own argument, or do you just post random links and hope something might help you. Here's a clue ...



No one would argue that an 'alexa' type thing couldn't help to take some loneliness away, but that's not providing care to those who need it most. I'm not prepared to go into details, but trust me mate, alexa is not and never will be the solution.

Are you familiar with the term luddite?

Jeez how naive.

[Whorty]

Feck me you are a contrary arse. This is the trajectory, it will happen and soon.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...uce-loneliness



they have been doing this for a while and other councils are adopting it.
https://www.local.gov.uk/case-studie...ng-amazon-echo

What you posted there supports what I say, you do realise that don't you? That you are providing evidence against your own argument, or do you just post random links and hope something might help you. Here's a clue ...

the trial was not intended to explore the replacement of human carers with robots

No one would argue that an 'alexa' type thing couldn't help to take some loneliness away, but that's not providing care to those who need it most. I'm not prepared to go into details, but trust me mate, alexa is not and never will be the solution.

[Lance]

Yeah plenty of UK Indians hate other tribes in India and Pakistan.

Many weren't keen on the unfettered migration from the EU. More competition for jobs.

Are they the racists you are talking about?

It's a bad assumption to think that immigration/jobs is a zero sum game. It's not. More immigrants is more people to do work, but also boosts the economy so there are more jobs.
To be frightened of immigrants taking all the jobs is ignorance and a bit of racism (your competing with natives for the jobs already so why does the fact that some are immigrants make any difference?). Ignorance and racism go hand in hand.

[LondonManc]

Economic migration has been shafting India for a few decades. A lot of their brightest have moved to the US, UK and other places leaving the subcontinent bereft of talent to do their own projects. So encouraging immigration is damaging the source.

Just another thing to stir into the pot.

[vetran]

Nobody believes anti-immigration is racist. However, there are racist people, and it is hard to believe that they're pro-immigration.

Yeah plenty of UK Indians hate other tribes in India and Pakistan.

Many weren't keen on the unfettered migration from the EU. More competition for jobs.

Are they the racists you are talking about?

[vetran]

Do you actually know what goes on caring for dependent patients? Maybe do some of your Googling and see if you can learn something. And then come back and tell the class why a robot won't work.

Feck me you are a contrary arse. This is the trajectory, it will happen and soon.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...uce-loneliness

Robots that can hold simple conversations and learn people’s interests are to be deployed in some UK care homes after an international trial found they boosted mental health and reduced loneliness.

The wheeled robots, called “Pepper”, move independently and gesture with robotic arms and hands and are designed to be “culturally competent”, which means that after some initial programming they learn about the interests and backgrounds of care home residents. This allows them to initiate rudimentary conversations, play residents’ favourite music, teach them languages, and offer practical help including medicine reminders.



The researchers, led by Dr Chris Papadopoulos at the University of Bedfordshire, said the trial was not intended to explore the replacement of human carers with robots, but to help fill lonely periods when, because of a stretched social care system, staff do not have time to keep residents company.

they have been doing this for a while and other councils are adopting it.
https://www.local.gov.uk/case-studie...ng-amazon-echo

Hampshire County Council has made assistive technology a mainstream part of its adult social care work. The approach has helped it achieve substantial savings with 100 new referrals being made each week into the service. It is also not afraid to innovate, becoming the first local authority to use Amazon Echo to help residents.

[NotAllThere]

Anti Immigration is not racist.

Nobody believes anti-immigration is racist. However, there are racist people, and it is hard to believe that they're pro-immigration.