Reply to: Any Brexit deal will hit UK economy - government paper

[DimPrawn]

Nothing to see here, move along...

And in other news, 78% of statistics are simply made up on the spot to suit someone's misguided and ill informed minority views.

HTH BIDI

[meridian]

Nothing to see here, move along...

[PurpleGorilla]

Well there is a full list here.

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li...n_to_the_Union

None of them really existed as proper countries with history and culture - more settled lands - with the probably exception of Hawaii - which has it's own unique history.

Ever been to Texas? I’d say I agree with you but would include Hawaii and Texas (been to both too).

[original PM]

Apart from Hawaii

And Texas

And California

And Vermont

Any others?

Well there is a full list here.

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li...n_to_the_Union

None of them really existed as proper countries with history and culture - more settled lands - with the probably exception of Hawaii - which has it's own unique history.

[darmstadt]

[BlasterBates]

I think the problem is people seem to view a United States of Europe in much the same way as the United States of America

The difference is most European countries have centuries of history, culture etc and so are independent countries in their own right.

The American states have only been in existence since approx 18th century and were never separate independent countries.

There will never be a United States of Europe comparable with the United States of America, where a President simply changes the regulations with the stroke of a pen or starts a nuclear war. Talk of more integration is always about co-operation between sovereign states. There is no article 50 in the US.

[PurpleGorilla]

Any Brexit deal will hit UK economy - government paper

I think the problem is people seem to view a United States of Europe in much the same way as the United States of America

The difference is most European countries have centuries of history, culture etc and so are independent countries in their own right.

The American states have only been in existence since approx 18th century and were never separate independent countries.

Apart from Hawaii

And Texas

And California

And Vermont

Any others?

[original PM]

I think the problem is people seem to view a United States of Europe in much the same way as the United States of America

The difference is most European countries have centuries of history, culture etc and so are independent countries in their own right.

The American states have only been in existence since approx 18th century and were never separate independent countries.

[darmstadt]

I might be missing something obvious but where is the link to the leaked document. I wouldn't mind looking at the authors, their motivation and the methodology used.

I think nearly every forecast from the government has been wrong, so would be interesting to see their approach.

Project fear, is geering up.

Found it

[tazdevil]

There are several successful federal states in Europe at this moment
Germany
Austria
Belgium
Russia
Switzerland

So yes federations work even in Europe

Compared to the EU those are small Countries with structural ties between the people but not immune to their differences. Switzerland and Russia aren't in the EU and where we have cultural and language separation the people dislike each other such as in Belgium. Other examples of recent federations that have disintegrated are the USSR and Yugoslavia and many European Countries show signs of strain with independence movements in Spain and elsewhere. Power tends to the centre which is why Germany is so successful in the EU and why we'll never be as we're on the periphery in more ways than one I don't want my future to be determined by smug gits from Luxembourg and German industrialists and I don't want to see our institutions (small stuff like the system of law!) discarded because of incompatibility with the way much of the continent does things.

[Eirikur]

The UK will be as successful as its going to be in or out of the EU club. But out we're still the UK and not a lackey of the US of EU and its fat cat masters. A federal Europe will not work as history has proven. Brexit isn't about the short term its about our long term independence and success and out is better for both. So the remainer FUD that keeps washing onto our shores should be ignored as the tripe it is

There are several successful federal states in Europe at this moment
Germany
Austria
Belgium
Russia
Switzerland

So yes federations work even in Europe

[darmstadt]

What history?

Correct. There has never really been a federal Europe, I think the poster believes that subjugation of other countries makes for a federation, perhaps something not unlike the Commonwealth

[woohoo]

I might be missing something obvious but where is the link to the leaked document. I wouldn't mind looking at the authors, their motivation and the methodology used.

I think nearly every forecast from the government has been wrong, so would be interesting to see their approach.

Project fear, is geering up.

[BR14]

How are you so sure this will happen? There is no empire to plunder resources from anymore in fact some commonwealth members especially India becoming more powerful and important than the UK. I'm sure brexit was all about becoming a lackey state of India and Pakistan. Anyway in or out of the EU the UK will always be the US's submissive servant.

If you dislike the UK so much, why don't you sod off <mod snip>

[tazdevil]

What history?

Look at the violent resistance given to invading forces throughout European history and the demand for national identity and autonomy. In the few examples of successful combination such as Germany and the UK, Italy and Spain there is still seething resentment centuries after union. The EU is attempting to create a federal Europe without the use of military force and with much larger differences separating the disparate parts. It's doomed to failure.