Reply to: Differences Between Umbrella Companies

[original PM]

Case law for RHP so far shows that yes the court may rule in favour of the employee however if the employer can clearly show that the hp was rolled up then no further penalties will be given to the employer.

e,g, yes you would win the case but no you would not get any compensation for it.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

But it would only end up in court if an employee of the umbrella company in receipt of RHP sued their employer. And while anyone using an umbrella company is clearly Upton Park* I would have thought the chance of someone being insane enough to sue over the issue, is tiny.

* Two stops short of Barking.

NotAllThere I'm hurt - Upton Park indeed You are right but if it comes to non-compliance in any way I will always go for no chance rather than small chance

[NotAllThere]

As NotAllThere says what Parasol are doing is unlawful and not illegal but in my opinion there has been enough case law to support what the DTI are saying and I don't really want to risk ending up in court - really wouldn't look good for the business

But it would only end up in court if an employee of the umbrella company in receipt of RHP sued their employer. And while anyone using an umbrella company is clearly Upton Park* I would have thought the chance of someone being insane enough to sue over the issue, is tiny.

* Two stops short of Barking.

[superuser]

Giant

I've used Giant for a few contracts. Their web interface is easy to navigate around and straight forward to use; it also keeps your records in one place and lets you track progress of expenses, payments, etc.

However, recently they've included lock in clauses with their contracts. I'd also say that smaller subsitence claims could be made easier to enter. I've raised both of these issues with them but to no avail.

On balance, I'm going limited in the new tax year.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

on a more serious note , how is it that Parasol are breaking the law re holiday pay and getting away it ?
Your input into this would be appreciated Lisa( Contractor Umbrella )

As NotAllThere says what Parasol are doing is unlawful and not illegal but in my opinion there has been enough case law to support what the DTI are saying and I don't really want to risk ending up in court - really wouldn't look good for the business

[Moptop]

I've used Orange Genie, Giant and Parasol:

Orange Genie: OK at first; left (in 2005) because I kept having to chase things up.

Giant: OK; found the web interface a bit inadequate for complex expenses (one-way journeys, hotels, etc.). [mid-2007; it may have changed since then.]

Parasol: OK; best web interface I've encountered for timesheets and expenses.

Other things to consider:
Flat fee or percentage of invoice?
Pension scheme? (divert some of that Employers NI!)

[NotAllThere]

Unlawful - not authorised by law
Illegal - forbidden by law

If a court finds that your action is illegal, you'll be punished. If a court finds that your action is unlawful, you have to stop doing it. Failure to stop, is contempt of court, which is illegal.

If a government implements a policy that is later found to be unlawful, the government has to change the policy in accordance with the judgement.

Unless and until someone prosecutes, they can get away with it. I'd also guess that Parasol do not consider they are breaking the law - they merely have a different interpretation from the DTI!

[JC80]

shock horror indeeed !-- is'nt it funny how these newbies disappear after the first post has gone in -- no doubt the second post will now start to come in

It may seem that we disappear because we have to wait for our posts to be moderated.

Thanks to all of you who have given sound advice.

[sidknows]

on a more serious note , how is it that Parasol are breaking the law re holiday pay and getting away it ?
Your input into this would be appreciated Lisa( Contractor Umbrella )

[TheFaQQer]

I think you will find that they mention contractor umbrella which is 'part' of sjd

Not in their first post they didn't

[sidknows]

Shock Horror! Many newbies post asking advice about two of the most well known companies that contractors use!

More breaking news: newbies also post silly questions about expenses, it must be HMRC in disguise!



An no, I use neither, I have a Ltd and use Uptons for my accounts.

shock horror indeeed !-- is'nt it funny how these newbies disappear after the first post has gone in -- no doubt the second post will now start to come in

[NotAllThere]

,,,so the DTI has got it dead wrong with trying to force this issue as the only people it benefits is the brolly company - your take home pay will be the same over the same period whether you get the holiday pay rolled up or paid with your final pay cheque...!

The effect on brollies is not the DTI's intent. Their intent is to stop unscrupulous employers getting round the statutory leave laws. I.e. I have a job that pays you £10 per hour. I cut the rate to £9 an hour, but give you an additional £1 an hour RHP. And then insist you work 52 weeks a year.

What's probably needed is some way for Brollies to be able to get an exemption to the statutory leave laws, but as the EU and the current government want everyone to be an employee and "protected", I doubt that will happen. In fact, I fully expect a directive to come through to say that statutory holidays must be taken.

I wouldn't worry about a brolly that still did RHP. Remember that unlawful is not the same as illegal, and RHP is for your benefit, not theirs. If a brolly was behaving unlawfully for their own benefit, then I'd worry.

Not that I'd ever use a brolly anyway.

[sidknows]

The OP mentions Ice Blue, not SJD at all.

Not convinced that Sid does know.

I think you will find that they mention contractor umbrella which is 'part' of sjd

[JC80]

It's like starting a new school with some of you lot. Thought forums like this was supposed to be a friendly place for advice. Are we not supposed to mention any company names? If so how can do we get to know about them.

[blacjac]

will sjd and contractor umbrella stop using 'first time posters' to publicise themselves -- its becoming highly apparent ( to me anyway ) that this is a tactic they are using far too often

Shock Horror! Many newbies post asking advice about two of the most well known companies that contractors use!

More breaking news: newbies also post silly questions about expenses, it must be HMRC in disguise!



An no, I use neither, I have a Ltd and use Uptons for my accounts.