Reply to: Holding crypto in Ltd Company?

[willendure]

You can hold futures contracts in SIPPs with Interactive Brokers. Probably with other platforms too.

Thanks, I never heard of them before but looks interesting. Certainly a lot more opportunity to hedge within a SIPP than other platforms.

[financial analyst]

How do you buy futures contracts in a SIPP?

You can hold futures contracts in SIPPs with Interactive Brokers. Probably with other platforms too.

[willendure]

Enormous disclaimer that this is not advice or a recommendation.

But there have been plenty of ways to get exposure to crypto without holding crypto directly, via shares in listed Crypto Miners (RIOT, MARA, etc), or effectively leveraged via MSTR. Or just buy the futures contract.

You could have bought any/all of these in your SIPP when you asked last March, or if you anticipated the growth in value of BTC, could have borrowed from your LtdCo and bought any of the above personally (or just bought the underlying crypto directly) or the ETFs, and repaid the loan to the LtdCo from the profits.

How do you buy futures contracts in a SIPP?

[financial analyst]

Enormous disclaimer that this is not advice or a recommendation.

But there have been plenty of ways to get exposure to crypto without holding crypto directly, via shares in listed Crypto Miners (RIOT, MARA, etc), or effectively leveraged via MSTR. Or just buy the futures contract.

You could have bought any/all of these in your SIPP when you asked last March, or if you anticipated the growth in value of BTC, could have borrowed from your LtdCo and bought any of the above personally (or just bought the underlying crypto directly) or the ETFs, and repaid the loan to the LtdCo from the profits.

[willendure]

I saw reported last week that this restriction is about to be lifted.

Yeah, after we missed about 100% in gains if we could have got in at the start.

[woody1]

But alas, in the UK we are not allowed to invest in bitcoin ETFs in a SIPP because the people who run this country are f*ing idiots that think they know better than us.

I saw reported last week that this restriction is about to be lifted.

[sadkingbilly]

I could avoid the 40% tax by putting money from Ltd into a SIPP. But alas, in the UK we are not allowed to invest in bitcoin ETFs in a SIPP because the people who run this country are f*ing idiots that think they know better than us.

[willendure]

Is there any logic/sense in investing inside the ltd co, or is this firmly an investment to be made personally once funds have been extracted from ltd co?

My logic is that since I already take out up to the higher rate from the ltd, any more is going to attract tax at 40%. If I keep it in the Ltd as cash, it is inflating away. So stash some of the Ltd warchest in bitcoin as a hedge against inflation. Will pay tax on any gains of course, but will also get a future income/dividends from those gains.

I could avoid the 40% tax by putting money from Ltd into a SIPP. But alas, in the UK we are not allowed to invest in bitcoin ETFs in a SIPP because the people who run this country are f*ing idiots that think they know better than us.

But I do actually have some personal funds in BTC as well, and a SIPP and an ISA. So BTC within the Ltd is not my first choice of investment, its more a place to stash some spare cash.

I should also have opened some accounts that would have let the Ltd put spare cash in precious metals or equities, but not gotten around to that yet. Setting up these accounts is a bit of a pain since you need to present lots of documentation. Also to be careful that the Ltd does not invest too much, if it starts making more from investment than consulting activities it could become a closed investment company - maybe not such a terrible thing as its eventual fate but it does attract a higher rate of taxation.

I am also interested in the mechanics of BTC and being part of its network. I run my own node, and have made a concerted effort to understand the security of it, with air gapped crypto devices and so on. It is unstoppable money that exists outside of the fiat system, and therefore a systemic hedge also.

[fiisch]

Bitcoin shinanigans on Friday:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23ddxotpMZM&t=623s

tldr; there was massive shorting of BTC right before Trumps tweet on new China tarrifs, on new accounts opened and funded with $80m around 28 hours prior to the tweet.

Some trader was found dead in is Lambo also - which of course, must mean we are at peak crypto.

"Galich was also known for his luxurious lifestyle, owning high-end cars like a 2020 Lamborghini Urus, a 2023 Ferrari 296 GTB, and a 2012 Mercedes-Benz 220 CDI."

Damn, what a baller....

Interesting thread - personally, I think trying to time the noise is a fools' errand. We've been due a crash for years, Robert Kiyosaki has predicted 47 of the last 2 financial crashes. Dollar cost averaging is the key.

Interesting in that since this post was first made, magic beans and Ponzi scheme jibes aside, BTC has again doubled in value. I was also a crypto sceptic, but as a devout ETF investor I've had to accept it makes sense to have a small % of assets in crypto.

Is there any logic/sense in investing inside the ltd co, or is this firmly an investment to be made personally once funds have been extracted from ltd co?

[willendure]

They were trading leveraged crypto derivatives on margin.

[woody1]

Some trader was found dead in is Lambo

He was one of several traders whose 7-figure accounts were wiped out. They were trading leveraged crypto derivatives on margin.

[willendure]

Bitcoin shinanigans on Friday:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23ddxotpMZM&t=623s

tldr; there was massive shorting of BTC right before Trumps tweet on new China tarrifs, on new accounts opened and funded with $80m around 28 hours prior to the tweet.

Some trader was found dead in is Lambo also - which of course, must mean we are at peak crypto.

[willendure]

Pssssst!
wanna buy some magic beans??

Sure. How many have you got?

[sadkingbilly]

Pssssst!
wanna buy some magic beans??

[willendure]

Sorry I meant price in the trading sense, as in what it's doing. Going up, going down. Bull market, bear market.

Anyway FWIW, arguably silver isn't high. It achieved the same price back in 2011 and all the way back in 1980. Adjusted for inflation, it hasn't even matched those bull market highs (2nd chart).

https://www.macrotrends.net/1470/his...100-year-chart

I agree. Tends to lag gold too, I think it still has plenty to run.

Been in VZLA silver miner too, and that has been going gang busters.