Reply to: My accountant hasn't filed a CS01 with Companies House in over 2 years: Compensation?

[jamesbrown]

I really appreciate the replies in this thread, but I do have a Companies House account, and my own HMRC account, and I've had both since I set up the company, before I engaged an accountant.

Then why are you not signed up for e-mail notifications when your CS01 is due and to protect changes to your CH account? Or did you just ignore the e-mails? Either way, it comes down to the same thing - pay attention in future and do not rely on an accountant - or trust and verify.

[yusefkerr]

If you had a CH account, this never would've happened.

I really appreciate the replies in this thread, but I do have a Companies House account, and my own HMRC account, and I've had both since I set up the company, before I engaged an accountant.

northernlad similarly, I didn't ever say that I engaged the accountant so I "don't have to think about anything". What I said was "I’ve considered doing this accounting work myself, but it’s just about felt worth it to pay someone else to do it and not have to think about it." Meaning, I was thinking about doing all my accounting myself, but I decided to pay someone to do the filing and accounts etc. That's not the same as running the company.

[northernladuk]

But you've also indicated you've got an accountant so you don't have to think about anything. That would indicate they are running your company not you.

[jamesbrown]

Is there some other line of thinking from the accountancy sages on this?

You're going to struggle to find more lines of thinking than the first thread linked in that post. I suggest you read it.

https://forums.contractoruk.com/hmrc...companies.html

( And, no, not simply because they file information on your behalf. But your OP suggests you expect your accountant to hold your hand. If you don't have your own account with CH and with HMRC (and check them regularly), that probably indicates you are not on top of your statutory responsibilities and you also have too much faith in your accountant. If you had a CH account, this never would've happened. )

[yusefkerr]

I can see why the MSC legislation might generally be a hot topic at the moment, but surely my accountant isn't an MSCP just because they file a form with Companies House on my behalf? I send them the information for the Confirmation Statement every year, and they're supposed to file it for me. That doesn't give them any decision making or control over my company, surely? It's somewhat similar with the EOY accounts as well, and I can't see what'd be left for an accountant to do if that's somehow too much involvement in decision making.

Insofar as it simply gave rise to a load of offshore umbrella companies, IR35 at least made sense to me in that a contractor who worked solely for the same company for 2 years was pretty much an employee, but what cojak points to on that thread just seems bizarre:

Basically, HMRC are going after these accountants’ clients because said accountants are managing their clients too closely for them to be in business for their account.

And most of what this comes down to seems to be about whether the accounting companies in question are advising their clients individually, or without distinguishing clients from one another. But assuming rational actors in a rule-based framework, there'll be optimum solutions, and any similar companies will act similarly as long as they have equal access to information. That's going to look a lot like all these separate entities are being herded ("Managed too closely"), even when they're making their own decisions. (Let alone the fact that, you know, maybe an accountant *should* be aiming to give advice to all their clients in an efficient way?). Is there some other line of thinking from the accountancy sages on this?

[cojak]

northernladuk: I tried googling when it was mentioned above, but what is MSC?

MSC Legislation: what is it and why are HMRC using it now to nail contractors?
https://forums.contractoruk.com/acco...ntractors.html

[yusefkerr]

northernladuk: I tried googling when it was mentioned above, but what is MSC?

[GregRickshaw]

jamesbrown eek
My accountant has said the following "I can confirm that there were errors on our side in connection with your address and confirmation statement. As part of your service we do include us filing the confirmation statement with Companies House on your behalf".

This sounds like they're saying that they will do it on my behalf (although clearly they didn't). I'm responsible ultimately for how the company files, but if someone says "give me money and I'll do this part of that for you", and it's something they don't do or can't do, isn't that fraudulent?



I have a CH account as I said in my email. I receive some alerts via email, and then my accountant usually sends me a related email saying something along the lines of "please fill this form out on our website and we will take it from there".

GregRickshaw I can't fully make out what you're saying here. I've updated my details on the Companies House(CH) site. Are you talking about filing my accounts? I'm talking about the confirmation statement.

Thanks for the replies so far.

Ah apologies I thought you were talking about filing EOY too.

My advice still stands though it should be you and not your accountant's responsibility (as clearly others have said). I do have some sympathy with you though it's tough running a company and working for said company so things can slip and there are lots of people who think setting up a LTD is just box ticking.

I realised early on running my LTD company needed work on my part and not rely on others (still in hot water mind), I was lucky I guess as I had to take people on and not be a one man band I think only then does having a LTD company bring it's own series of responsibilities (like actually running it) still here I am still on death row.

What you need to find out though from your accountants and their 'package' is just how much they were controlling your company. If they are just a bit rubbish at reminding you about stuff then that's one thing, if they are running your company come and take a seat with the rest of the condemned

I would speak to your accountants and ask them about MSC (I know we're wandering off topic a little) but I think your slipshot confirmation issues may possibly have altered you to an MSCP. In which case you need to get away from those accountants, as HMRC will come for the later years (like now) when they have won the case against CK and Boox.

I don't think there is anything wrong with getting reminders from your accountant about important LTD company dates/events but the 'we'll take it from there' troubles me with your 'package' and the whole fill out this form on our website. This is the kind of accountancy package which has got a lot of us in a lot of hot water.

[jamesbrown]

This sounds like they're saying that they will do it on my behalf (although clearly they didn't). I'm responsible ultimately for how the company files, but if someone says "give me money and I'll do this part of that for you", and it's something they don't do or can't do, isn't that fraudulent?

Good luck with that. There was no attempt to defraud, they simply made a mistake. Accountants make mistakes all the time. It is your responsibility to check their work and that your statutory responsibilities are being met. You well get zero passes from CH or HMRC when you fail your statutory responsibilities or you make mistakes in your returns. There are probably other mistakes that you haven't noticed. This is a hard lesson to learn, I guess. Sorry for your troubles, but the first thing to learn from this is that the major mistake was yours - if you don't learn that lesson, you'll be back here again.

[Lance]

all my accountant does for this is to remind me to do it. Useful and I would probably forget if they didn't.
But CH offer an email reminder so get that setup and don't fail again.

[northernladuk]

To be fair, forgetting arguments around whether he should be doing it himself, if the accountant did include it in their service (wrongly or rightly) as the OP demonstrates in the post above, they didn't do it and it's affected your business you'd think the OP has some claim here. Question might be, would chasing this down raise a flag for MSC?

OP. Compensation can only really succeed if you can demonstrate loss. You can't go down this path just because you are bit hacked off. Have you actually lost any notable amounts of money yet or not. If not then you can forget compensation above and beyond strong arming the accountants for a discount or bit of something.
If it's just a hiccup that can be rectified pretty easily with no lasting damage then nothing will come of it. Get them to fix it and then let your feet do the talking and leave.

[yusefkerr]

jamesbrown eek
My accountant has said the following "I can confirm that there were errors on our side in connection with your address and confirmation statement. As part of your service we do include us filing the confirmation statement with Companies House on your behalf".

This sounds like they're saying that they will do it on my behalf (although clearly they didn't). I'm responsible ultimately for how the company files, but if someone says "give me money and I'll do this part of that for you", and it's something they don't do or can't do, isn't that fraudulent?

"You really should have a CH account and you should be on e-mail alerts for filings/security".

I have a CH account as I said in my email. I receive some alerts via email, and then my accountant usually sends me a related email saying something along the lines of "please fill this form out on our website and we will take it from there".

GregRickshaw I can't fully make out what you're saying here. I've updated my details on the Companies House(CH) site. Are you talking about filing my accounts? I'm talking about the confirmation statement.

Thanks for the replies so far.

[northernladuk]

I'm with Eek on this one. Not checking if your company has met it's legal obligations in inexcusable. Just checking the companies house register once a blue moon at the very least. Letting your accountant do it and you not caring smacks of MSC as well as generally negligent etc.

it’s just about felt worth it to pay someone else to do it and not have to think about it.

Totally wrong. You are ultimately responsible and have to sign everything so you do have to think. It can take the worry out of it as they provide you a professional service to help you but not think about it is just silly.

You are a contractor. Your two main activities are running your LTD and reading/understanding and signing contracts. Doing the work at clients site is the easy bit. Any bugger can do that, even the permies. It's the rest on top that is your job.

Anyone know which accountants offer quickbooks instead of FA nowadays?

[Fred Bloggs]

OP, you need to get a grip on this. Why did you let this slide for two years when it's you that's responsible for running your company? You didn't notice the accountant wasn't filing on time? That's simply negligent.
Along with the others here, you'll get no sympathy from me.

[eek]

Shudder .... the word package....

I get what you are saying though. However signing the CS01 comes to you not your accountant, I know my accountants aren't exactly in favour these days but man we never missed a single deadline when it comes to filing, in fact that's all they did get me to sign EOY and then we filed and now look where that got me.

Before you switch accountants have you managed to now file the two years because rather than compensation you will be looking at hefty fines/penalties and the accountants (I think I know who you are talking about) will still have your books

I think they were filed on time, the issue is the changes weren't made as they filed. 1 reason for that is that you are supposed to file changes as they occur not x months later.