Dust settles - what happened?
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  1. #21

    Still gathering requirements...


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    Quote Originally Posted by SueEllen View Post
    What is the legal definition of a PSC?

    How does Companies House distinguish between a company with only one director and no other employees, and a company with one director and 3 employees?
    I don't know.

    I am trying to understand how HMRC, use the data to prove the move has generated all the 'missing' tax. I thought PSC's numbers maybe be a factor, but clearly not.

  2. #22

    Fingers like lightning


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    Isn't it likely to be the case that after a period of time, the PS bodies will feedback to HMRC the results of the experiment, i.e. that the same contractors are by and large, sat in the same seats only they are now through an umbrella company paying NI and PAYE? "so, it's a success then? Great, April 2018 for the private sector it is"

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFaQQer View Post
    Where is the data that they can use to show that?
    I think I am in a conversation, a long way past my knowledge. I was kind of hoping someone could tell me the answer....

  4. #24

    Faqqed Off

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    Quote Originally Posted by oliverson View Post
    Isn't it likely to be the case that after a period of time, the PS bodies will feedback to HMRC the results of the experiment, i.e. that the same contractors are by and large, sat in the same seats only they are now through an umbrella company paying NI and PAYE? "so, it's a success then? Great, April 2018 for the private sector it is"
    Possibly - HMRC could write to each public sector body and ask whether they use independent workers, whether they have changed, what the details are, are they doing the same jobs etc. but there is no legal requirement for a response and there are a lot of public sector bodies out there that would need to be contacted. Just cherry picking a few would be open to a lot of scrutiny if used as the basis for any decision in the future.

    Someone has to ask the question, and people have to reply to it before any accurate feedback can be collected.
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  5. #25

    More time posting than coding


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    Quote Originally Posted by LoughriggFell View Post
    I don't know.

    I am trying to understand how HMRC, use the data to prove the move has generated all the 'missing' tax. I thought PSC's numbers maybe be a factor, but clearly not.
    I don't anticipate HMRC even attempting to prove anything.

    They didn't feel the need to prove the "cost of £440m in those not paying tax " and they didn't feel the need to justify how "those doing the same job should pay the same tax" but didn't get the same rights.

    They have actioned what they want and therefore they will assume it has had the effect they desired. No one is going to attempt to hold them to account for how successful this has been.

  6. #26

    More time posting than coding


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    our sample size was very small but the split was 50% of contracts caught inside ir35 and 50% contracts outside.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by youngguy View Post
    I don't anticipate HMRC even attempting to prove anything.

    They didn't feel the need to prove the "cost of £440m in those not paying tax " and they didn't feel the need to justify how "those doing the same job should pay the same tax" but didn't get the same rights.

    They have actioned what they want and therefore they will assume it has had the effect they desired. No one is going to attempt to hold them to account for how successful this has been.
    True. I was being naive.

  8. #28

    Nervous Newbie


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    I'm not sure that Public Sector contractors are exactly 'rolling over', in fact I think a lot are walking.
    I was in a contract prior to April 6th which was up for renewal/restart on April 12th at the same rate. I was informed on the 7th that the role had been deemed as being inside IR35. I've attempted to negotiate with the client & agent an increase to the daily rate so that I'm not taking the full hit, so far I've only been able to get 30% of the amount I'm set to lose. Not happy.
    Current situation is that I still haven't signed/started the new contract (although that's still a possibility) and I'm now looking elsewhere.
    I suppose it's a bit of a Mexican stand off ... problem is I can't afford to be too stubborn.

  9. #29

    I live on CUK

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    Quote Originally Posted by LoughriggFell View Post
    True. I was being naive.
    Very.

    Firstly the definition of a PSC is a HMRC one. The legal definition of companies most contractors have is a closed company. For example I was once labelled as a one director PSC by an agency when I had another director plus one employee then a subcontractor doing different work. The funny thing is the other director signed that contract....

    Also having worked with Companies House data, if you don't know some correct information about a company already you are very lucky if you find the exactly right company you are looking for.
    "Youíre just a bad memory who doesnít know when to go away" JR

  10. #30
    b r
    b r is offline

    Should post faster


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    If this ever happens to the private sector, and I reckon it probably will within a year or two seeing as 'contractors' are just accepting it, then I'm out of the industry for good, and the country.
    Going where?

    Not sure you realise but all countries have rules/laws etc, some more and some less draconian than this one.

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