No IR35 Delay at RBS

[KinooOrKinog]

I bet I could take a stab at who this guy is! Although I bet anybody who has ever contracted at RBS will say the same - it won't be the same guy, but we all know someone like that....

I could name at least half a dozen!

[ascender]

This one guy ?

Let’s get him


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I bet I could take a stab at who this guy is! Although I bet anybody who has ever contracted at RBS will say the same - it won't be the same guy, but we all know someone like that....

[GhostofTarbera]

BOOM!!!! THIS! All day long. F****** it up for everyone else.

This one guy ?

Let’s get him


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[jammer]

10 to 15 years!!!!!! Precisely these kind of people that should get ****ed by HMRC in my view.

BOOM!!!! THIS! All day long. F****** it up for everyone else.

[jammer]

Are companies really doing full U turns. It's only been a couple of days. It's taken them 6 months to put this in place so I'm finding the list of U turns on the new site a bit difficult to believe to be honest.

I expect some will but it seems awfully quick for large organisations to have switched back.

I was thinking exactly this. Also with an unprecendented execution of disaster recovery for some as well no doubt.

[northernladuk]

10 to 15 years!!!!!! Precisely these kind of people that should get ****ed by HMRC in my view.

We've kind a said that ever since the public sector idea first popped up many years ago. If they could find a system that caught this type of thing andeft the rest of us alone we'd probably be all for it.

[GhostofTarbera]

10 to 15 years!!!!!! Precisely these kind of people that should get ****ed by HMRC in my view.

Cuddled ???


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[oliverson]

I'm sorry but this is incorrect, I recently left RBS due to the risks of this and their blanket ban of PSCs.
This was well discussed in this thread from page 25 onwards: https://www.contractoruk.com/forums/...d-i-go-25.html

Firstly, they are not making determinations but making anyone who carries on - pay NI as if they are an "employee".
Agencies are reporting back to HMRC your NI number, how much you were paid, NI deductions etc as well as when you or your PSC started providing services to that end-client. How much info you have been provided on this will depend on your agency - there have been large discrepancies on this.
HMRC will see suddenly that you are paying a lot more NI and could retrospectively investigate as to why you were not paying it when previously engaged, albeit via your PSC. (Were you really outside before you went umbrella?)
Did you finish as a Ltd Co on a Friday and come back via Umbrella on the Monday, same role etc?

I agonised over this, but the facts and the evidence suggested carrying on from PSC to Umbrella at the same client introduces a level of risk that would prevent me sleeping at night. I roughly calculated that it would be 1K a month I'd owe HMRC for any retro investigation. Fortunately I was only there for 18 months, but I know others who have made the switch and have been there in excess of 10 or 15 years. So that's at least 150K HMRC could be asking for...

10 to 15 years!!!!!! Precisely these kind of people that should get ****ed by HMRC in my view.

[drob1984]

Retro and no PSCs

No one has been deemed inside or outside IR35 at RBS. There have been no determinations. There is no retrospective risk. If there had been determinations, I would agree with you. But there is no risk, RBS has gone for PSC blanket ban so does not have the issue of people being deemed inside IR35

I'm sorry but this is incorrect, I recently left RBS due to the risks of this and their blanket ban of PSCs.
This was well discussed in this thread from page 25 onwards: https://www.contractoruk.com/forums/...d-i-go-25.html

Firstly, they are not making determinations but making anyone who carries on - pay NI as if they are an "employee".
Agencies are reporting back to HMRC your NI number, how much you were paid, NI deductions etc as well as when you or your PSC started providing services to that end-client. How much info you have been provided on this will depend on your agency - there have been large discrepancies on this.
HMRC will see suddenly that you are paying a lot more NI and could retrospectively investigate as to why you were not paying it when previously engaged, albeit via your PSC. (Were you really outside before you went umbrella?)
Did you finish as a Ltd Co on a Friday and come back via Umbrella on the Monday, same role etc?

I agonised over this, but the facts and the evidence suggested carrying on from PSC to Umbrella at the same client introduces a level of risk that would prevent me sleeping at night. I roughly calculated that it would be 1K a month I'd owe HMRC for any retro investigation. Fortunately I was only there for 18 months, but I know others who have made the switch and have been there in excess of 10 or 15 years. So that's at least 150K HMRC could be asking for...

[northernladuk]

You are forgetting two things: HMRC's view about PSC bans, and that the banks are tired of being political targets.

HMRC's view is that those who instituted PSC bans did so because that fit the working practices. In other words, in their view everyone at those places should have been inside. Therefore, there is retrospective risk.

Second, for a bank that has (deservedly) received so much bad press and wants to rebuild their reputation, they want to be able to say, "The reforms brought to our attention that there might be some inappropriate tax avoidance going on among those who work with RBS. We don't want to facilitate that, so we won't be working with PSCs anymore." It's a big political win for them even if the 'reform' has been rolled back.

I agree with both points... Another to add.
There is plenty of evidence that some of the banks just use contracting as a way to recruit, not because they want skills they don't have to come deliver SoW type deliverables. There is no way, if they had done it properly, that everyone would be outside. Just because it was a blanket it does not mean everyone is now by defacto outside now they've done a U Turn. I'd be willing to bet these types of places will have more insides that anywhere else.
The fact that so many people are saying they are outside because the blanket is lifted also shows there are a lot of people in these places that don't know about IR35 almost putting themselves inside as well.

If pressure mounts on them to do it properly next year I think there are going to be a lot of bad surprises for people a hell of a lot of worried contractors next time round and will make up a majority of the posters asking what to do when this hits next time.

The U turn is not necessarily a good thing for many people in blanket roles IMO.