paye with agency or paye direct with clientco - is the later "safer"

**northernladuk** · 24 February 2020, 11:20

I'm sure we've been over this a hundred times so far......

**eek** · 24 February 2020, 11:21

Originally posted by CanPayButWouldRatherNot View Post

Can I just clarify the situation post april .....

re-reading all the posts about how retrospective HMRC could be with regard to people staying on with their current clientco under paye (either agency or direct) there is a lot of worry/fud

HMRC have tried to placate the fears etc

Press release: HMRC clarifies when contractors at risk of retrospective enquiry | The Association of Taxation Technicians

New Chancellor also giving the impression that all is well ...(going soft on enforcement etc)

But we know HMRC are a law unto themselves so.

Given 3 options for post april ...have ranked in terms of limiting risk:

1. quit and get a new gig (least risk)

2. get a permie gig with client co

---is this any safer ? .. HMRC wont view them as an agency so its not a direct connection ???

3. take paye offer with current agency to current clientco (most risk)

--- see this as most risky as the agency have to report the names of folks working through them ?

So the question is ....is a direct permie job a way of dropping the connection between the agency legislation ?

I've only got 2.5 years exposure at client co and will be striking off my ltd company this year which might break the link anyway.

I wouldn't use the word only - HMRC could be coming for 25% of that money or roughly 8 months of it.

As for whether it's better to take a PAYE via the company or via the agency - not a clue are either of them a permanent job with benefits or just continue the risk that contracting offers without the pay.

**cojak** · 24 February 2020, 11:22

How likely do you think it is?

Because we really don't know.

How far do you trust HMRC - what is your attitude to risk?

**CanPayButWouldRatherNot** · 24 February 2020, 11:59

Originally posted by northernladuk View Post

I'm sure we've been over this a hundred times so far......

I know .. sorry but I couldn't find an answer to this specific point

...does working through an agency post april make any difference ? ... agency rules etc

..does working direct through a permanent company not drop you off that agency radar ?

**eek** · 24 February 2020, 12:25

Originally posted by CanPayButWouldRatherNot View Post

I know .. sorry but I couldn't find an answer to this specific point

...does working through an agency post april make any difference ? ... agency rules etc

..does working direct through a permanent company not drop you off that agency radar ?

Working for the client directly removes you from a single report, which would probably be HMRC's starting point. But beyond that it doesn't make any difference..

When HMRC comes knocking what evidence do you have that the work you did while outside IR35 was significantly different to the work you did inside IR35

**WordIsBond** · 24 February 2020, 13:18

No one knows if or how HMRC will chase historical cases. But from what we guess, the risk is probably higher if you stay with the same agency because the agency has given them a report with you on it, and next they'll be giving them a report with you on payroll.

No one here knows if HMRC currently has any reports that indicate which client you are at. They know which agency you are through. If they know which client you are at, there's probably little difference in risk. If they don't, then in the immediate near term, going payroll direct is probably less risky.

We do know that they knew everyone who was at GSK. We don't know how but suspect GSK told them (or was made to tell them, or made to know they'd better do so). So if they want to find out who was a contractor with a client and is now permie at the same client, they'll be able to find out, almost certainly. But it might take them a while longer than if you stay with the same agency.

If you are closing YourCo, the extra time it takes them to find out might make all the difference to you. FWIW.

**CanPayButWouldRatherNot** · 24 February 2020, 14:34

Originally posted by WordIsBond View Post

No one knows if or how HMRC will chase historical cases. But from what we guess, the risk is probably higher if you stay with the same agency because the agency has given them a report with you on it, and next they'll be giving them a report with you on payroll.

No one here knows if HMRC currently has any reports that indicate which client you are at. They know which agency you are through. If they know which client you are at, there's probably little difference in risk. If they don't, then in the immediate near term, going payroll direct is probably less risky.

We do know that they knew everyone who was at GSK. We don't know how but suspect GSK told them (or was made to tell them, or made to know they'd better do so). So if they want to find out who was a contractor with a client and is now permie at the same client, they'll be able to find out, almost certainly. But it might take them a while longer than if you stay with the same agency.

If you are closing YourCo, the extra time it takes them to find out might make all the difference to you. FWIW.

thanks very much for your comments

... yes I read about GSK at the time and certainly helps skew the fudometer !!

Planning to strike off my clientco later this year so appreciate your comments that preferable is to go straight to clientco and possibly buy some extra time that way.

**WordIsBond** · 24 February 2020, 14:41

Originally posted by CanPayButWouldRatherNot View Post

Planning to strike off my clientco later this year so appreciate your comments that preferable is to go straight to clientco and possibly buy some extra time that way.

I had a ClientCo I wanted to strike off once, but I doubt that's what you meant....

**CanPayButWouldRatherNot** · 24 February 2020, 15:32

Originally posted by WordIsBond View Post

I had a ClientCo I wanted to strike off once, but I doubt that's what you meant....

ha ha ... would edit the post but will leave it hanging as a reminder to check me spellin !

paye with agency or paye direct with clientco - is the later "safer"