Help - Outside to Outside - Stay or Go ?

[Lance]

Last question on this.

Thanks. The reason I kept asking the questions around this is because nearly 40 contractors are happy that the client is making an outside assessment and working practices will be genuinely self-employed, but only from end of March/beginning of April. The client is making sure that there will be no issues post April.

In the case of HMRC looking at this Client (they will be onsite in April for planned audit)

Yikes

and don't find any issues with post April contracts and working practices, people are concerned that they may look at pre-April too and the Client may say it is not their problem.

We are trying to get the Client agree that the current working practices are also Outside IR35.. but if they don't want to sign anything ?

Don't ask the client to agree your determination. You're asking them to commit to something they don't need to.

Write down the working practises as you see them and ask the client to agree that they are accurate. That way you are simply asking them to confirm that you all agree with the terms of the contract. Much easier for them to swallow that.

[LondonManc]

Last question on this.

Thanks. The reason I kept asking the questions around this is because nearly 40 contractors are happy that the client is making an outside assessment and working practices will be genuinely self-employed, but only from end of March/beginning of April. The client is making sure that there will be no issues post April.

In the case of HMRC looking at this Client (they will be onsite in April for planned audit) and don't find any issues with post April contracts and working practices, people are concerned that they may look at pre-April too and the Client may say it is not their problem.

We are trying to get the Client agree that the current working practices are also Outside IR35.. but if they don't want to sign anything ?

Explain to ClientCo that there is no liability on them for the pre-April work and that HMRC would come for the contractor, which is the whole basis of this IR35 change, i.e. after March it will be on the client instead.

[Paralytic]

Gonna be very hard for HMRC to win against the client. Unless a contractor stitches them up.
The client simply states that they are willing to accept a suitably qualified substitute. As long as that's not a demonstrable falsehood, it's game over.

Yup, agreed, but its oft-said here that HMRC's first targets post-April 2020 will be those clients that have determined people outside.

And some will simply get it wrong, not having taken advice.

Edit to add: Just seen this, which might back up the idea that HMRC will be having a quiet word with those clients who have said they're determining outside

In the case of HMRC looking at this Client (they will be onsite in April for planned audit) and don't find any issues with post April contracts and working practices, people are concerned that they may look at pre-April too and the Client may say it is not their problem.

[northernladuk]

Yikes

long time nearly 7 years non-stop

Yikes doesn't even cover it!

Don't ask the client to agree your determination. You're asking them to commit to something they don't need to.

Write down the working practises as you see them and ask the client to agree that they are accurate. That way you are simply asking them to confirm that you all agree with the terms of the contract. Much easier for them to swallow that.

With 7 years on the line this wouldn't fill me with enough confidence I could dodge a 200-400k bill.
Unless I got a rock solid outside SDS that I full understand and is water tight I'd be gone... like fast.
But then I don't do 7 years contracts so would have gone already.

And... if a client gave me outside on a 7 year gig I probably wouldn't believe them either TBH. I'd imagine you are so part and parcel the would manipulate the SDS to suit you staying If they ever looked at a similar role that has no contractor in it I'd be willing to bet the determination would be different.

[Ahmed]

that would be even better.
But as explained earlier, you're going to be at very low risk anyway. Why would HMRC go after you when your client also agrees that you're outside?

“ I am new to this forum and I apologise if some one else have already asked this question before. I am in a similar situation, been working for same number of years for the client outside IR35. I haven’t heard anything yet from my client and waiting to hear from them soon in a weeks time. What if my company blanket ban all the contractors and treat them inside IR35 and to come through umbrella.

1. Should I leave the client and look for another job as it would be a high risk?

2. Can I still work work through umbrella? I am struggling to make a decision as I am not clear about the Risks.

Could you all please advise me on this. I would really appreciate it

[LondonManc]

“ I am new to this forum and I apologise if some one else have already asked this question before. I am in a similar situation, been working for same number of years for the client outside IR35. I haven’t heard anything yet from my client and waiting to hear from them soon in a weeks time. What if my company blanket ban all the contractors and treat them inside IR35 and to come through umbrella.

1. Should I leave the client and look for another job as it would be a high risk?

2. Can I still work work through umbrella? I am struggling to make a decision as I am not clear about the Risks.

Could you all please advise me on this. I would really appreciate it

If you're moving from outside to inside and have been there years, probably better to have your current contract and working practices reviewed by QDOS now to determine your real IR35 status rather than your self-declared status. If you then get back an inside determination, you're going to be seen as low-hanging fruit if you stay and accept the blanket inside determination.

You can still work there - the risk is retrospective action.

[Lance]

“ I am new to this forum and I apologise if some one else have already asked this question before. I am in a similar situation, been working for same number of years for the client outside IR35.

I think you mean that you have made the determination that are outside IR35. You may also have been working outside IR35 for that period, or you may not

I haven’t heard anything yet from my client and waiting to hear from them soon in a weeks time. What if my company blanket ban all the contractors and treat them inside IR35 and to come through umbrella.

they can't ban contractors and treat them as inside. Those two are mutually exclusive.

1. Should I leave the client and look for another job as it would be a high risk?

Would it? That depends on whether you were actually working truly outside IR35

2. Can I still work work through umbrella?

I'm struggling to answer that....... If you can't see why you need to do a LOT more research.

I am struggling to make a decision as I am not clear about the Risks.

Could you all please advise me on this. I would really appreciate it

Not really. If you're not clear about the risks then you don't understand them. If you don't understand them, you can't articulate them, so how could we advise you?

Read the other threads in this forum is the best advise I think.