• Visitors can check out the Forum FAQ by clicking this link. You have to register before you can post: click the REGISTER link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. View our Forum Privacy Policy.

IR35 determination - EY Confirm Tool

Collapse
X
  •  
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • LondonManc
    replied
    Originally posted by Hawkeye View Post
    Absolutely. This chain makes me feel nervous. Although is this a real sample of all contracts that have been reviewed by EY or just the ones that have resulted in an inside result?
    I bet you get good odds on the ones being outside being the ones that they can't do.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hawkeye
    replied
    Originally posted by LondonManc View Post
    It'll be interesting to see the difference. If you're close enough to the client rep who's answering the tool it would be worth seeing what they answer (or indeed talking to them before they do!)
    Absolutely. This chain makes me feel nervous. Although is this a real sample of all contracts that have been reviewed by EY or just the ones that have resulted in an inside result?

    Leave a comment:


  • LondonManc
    replied
    Originally posted by Hawkeye View Post
    I'm going to embark on a qdos review and a EY review.
    It'll be interesting to see the difference. If you're close enough to the client rep who's answering the tool it would be worth seeing what they answer (or indeed talking to them before they do!)

    Leave a comment:


  • Hawkeye
    replied
    Originally posted by LondonManc View Post
    This is the problem with shifting the determination to a third party who benefits from a given outcome who will happily scare the client with fears of back tax, holiday pay claims, sickpay claims, etc.

    DaveB - has anyone actually received a result yet and does it match a QDOS assessment? I would suspect that the client rep answering their part of the tool is being led to an inside assessment.
    I'm going to embark on a qdos review and a EY review.

    Leave a comment:


  • LondonManc
    replied
    Originally posted by pacontracting View Post
    and this is the problem with shifting the liability of IR35 onto the client.

    There is no definitive definition of employment but contractors were prepared to take more risk, based on case law, experience and knowledge of their own contracts and HMRC's lack of success in the courts and so on and so would happily fly with an 'undetermined' status or better.

    By moving the liability to the end user, they have a much more risk adverse stance and so the majority of the tools out there are going to reflect this and only accept a definitive 'outside', which is actually pretty strict. The fact these vendors have a resourcing arm is the icing in the cake.

    Once HMRC have destroyed contractors working through Limited Company's, Department for Work and Pensions are going to come after the Disguised Employers (Umbrella's) so the only route open is permanent employment, even if for six months.
    This is the problem with shifting the determination to a third party who benefits from a given outcome who will happily scare the client with fears of back tax, holiday pay claims, sickpay claims, etc.

    DaveB - has anyone actually received a result yet and does it match a QDOS assessment? I would suspect that the client rep answering their part of the tool is being led to an inside assessment.

    Leave a comment:


  • GhostofTarbera
    replied
    Originally posted by Hawkeye View Post
    This is worrying. Just been told that my new client uses this tool. Am quite concerned now.
    Winner winner chicken dinner for EY

    I hear they are ramping up there grad intake this year to replace contractors


    Sent from my iPhone using Contractor UK Forum

    Leave a comment:


  • Hawkeye
    replied
    Originally posted by GhostofTarbera View Post
    They then check who in EY can replace you before giving the answer


    Sent from my iPhone using Contractor UK Forum
    This is worrying. Just been told that my new client uses this tool. Am quite concerned now.

    Leave a comment:


  • eek
    replied
    Originally posted by WavyDavy View Post
    I fear it will be worse than that...

    Pretty soon all this will be forgotten and the “new normal”

    The large firms will say, why have I got people I pay pensions, sick pay, holiday pay, health insurance, death-in-service, that I can’t fire or restructure? Why don’t I make them all like the contractors and pay a tiny bit more than salary and not have any of these issues/costs?
    I missed pacontracting's gibberish but what you say is correct - no permanent company is going to have a lot of permanent staff if No Right Employees are an option...

    Leave a comment:


  • WavyDavy
    replied
    Originally posted by pacontracting View Post

    Once HMRC have destroyed contractors working through Limited Company's, Department for Work and Pensions are going to come after the Disguised Employers (Umbrella's) so the only route open is permanent employment, even if for six months.
    I fear it will be worse than that...

    Pretty soon all this will be forgotten and the “new normal”

    The large firms will say, why have I got people I pay pensions, sick pay, holiday pay, health insurance, death-in-service, that I can’t fire or restructure? Why don’t I make them all like the contractors and pay a tiny bit more than salary and not have any of these issues/costs?

    Leave a comment:


  • pacontracting
    replied
    Originally posted by GhostofTarbera View Post
    They then check who in EY can replace you before giving the answer


    Sent from my iPhone using Contractor UK Forum
    and this is the problem with shifting the liability of IR35 onto the client.

    There is no definitive definition of employment but contractors were prepared to take more risk, based on case law, experience and knowledge of their own contracts and HMRC's lack of success in the courts and so on and so would happily fly with an 'undetermined' status or better.

    By moving the liability to the end user, they have a much more risk adverse stance and so the majority of the tools out there are going to reflect this and only accept a definitive 'outside', which is actually pretty strict. The fact these vendors have a resourcing arm is the icing in the cake.

    Once HMRC have destroyed contractors working through Limited Company's, Department for Work and Pensions are going to come after the Disguised Employers (Umbrella's) so the only route open is permanent employment, even if for six months.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X